Storytelling for Leaders: Crafting Narratives that Inspire and Persuade [Executive Speaking Series]: Podcast Ep. 398

398-SYB-Storytelling-for-Leaders.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

398-SYB-Storytelling-for-Leaders.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Carol Cox:
You’re going to love this episode all around storytelling for leaders how to craft narratives that inspire and persuade. On this episode of the Speaking Your Brand podcast.

Carol Cox:
More and more women are making an impact by starting businesses, running for office and speaking up for what matters. With my background as a TV political analyst, entrepreneur and speaker, I interview and coach purpose driven women to shape their brands, grow their companies, and become recognized as influencers in their field. This is speaking your brand, your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience.

Carol Cox:
Hi and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast. I’m your host, Carol Cox. We’re continuing the brand new series we’re doing all around. Executive speaking last week we talked about the importance of executive presence. Today, we’re diving into storytelling for leaders, especially if you’re in a business or a corporate environment. And I’m pleased to be joined today by two of our speaking coaches, Diane Diaz, who’s our lead speaking coach of Speaking Your Brand, and Joy Spencer, who I’m very fortunate to have come to us as a speaking and storytelling coach. Whether it’s for our thought leader, Academy is for the brave, bold beyond live virtual summits that we hosted, and it’s for the work that we do with different organizations to help them create and deliver their TEDx style talks. Diane, welcome.

Diane Diaz:
Hello. Thanks for having me on again.

Carol Cox:
And Joy, so nice to have you back as well.

Joy Spencer:
Yes, it’s great to be back. Thank you.

Carol Cox:
So as I mentioned, we’re going to really dive into storytelling. And I know that the two of you work so much with our clients on really digging into their stories. And for some of our clients, it’s really easy because they come to us and they have a very clear idea of what story is driving them to want to create a signature talk, to want to go out there and speak to audiences and impact them in a positive way. And I also know that for some of our clients, especially the ones who work in a corporate or business environment, they want to improve their public speaking. They want to get out there and speak more, whether it’s for leadership promotions that they’re looking for or really to build their personal brand. But they’re not really sure how storytelling fits in to their presentations or why stories even matter, or why their personal stories even matter. And so we oftentimes think the stories aren’t appropriate in quote unquote, professional business environments. And for sure, we’re not talking about oversharing or TMI type of stories. We know those are rarely ever appropriate, no matter what the setting is, depending on your audience. But today, we’re going to really talk about why storytelling matters in business settings, how to identify the best kinds of stories to share, how to tell a story, and some frameworks and models that you can use. So let’s go ahead and dive in. Really. You know, I know again that we have seen this so much about how much stories connect this emotionally with the audience. And so for Joy, can you take us back to maybe some of the speaking experiences you’ve had personally, and how much sharing stories of your own, how you have felt that connection with the audience in a different way than perhaps you did prior to really incorporating storytelling into the talks and presentations that you gave?

Joy Spencer:
I think I really got this definitely from working with with you as I was preparing my talk, I think when we first started working together, and our conversation really helped me dig into that. The Mrs. Jackson story, which I’ve been using ever since, which was a story that I had completely forgotten about. But what I found with that story, which is a which is an early childhood story that explains how I view scripts and scripting and sort of inviting people to move away from the script. Every time I share that story, it really resonates with people who who listen and really connects them to the message that I’m sharing. I think in a deeper way than when I’m just sort of like trying to talk to them about work in general. So I’ve seen the power of diving in and finding a personal story that connects you to why you do what you do, and sharing that with others. It just makes everything pop. It makes it spark. And that word connection cannot be underemphasized.

Carol Cox:
Well, now, Joy, I know that story of Miss Jackson. Can you tell us a quick version of that story? Yes.

Joy Spencer:
So imagine, you know, being in the third grade or the fourth grade and it’s play announcement day, and you like run down the grassy hill and there’s a bulletin board and there’s all the names that are listed with all the different characters. And your name is there. And my name was, you know, was on the board. But our plays were completely different from what people usually experienced. So we would usually, you know, we had Snow White and the eight dwarves, not just the seven dwarves or, you know, Cinderella. And the Prince was Michael Jackson, and there was a whole hot dancing hot dog scene, a zombie scene. And what in the world was going on? Right. That was our teacher, Mrs. Jackson, who, like, put on these really fun and wild plays. But the real unique thing about these plays was that she never gave us a script for them. She would share with us what our characters were. She gave us the intro, like generally this was. What needed to happen at the start of the scene and the end of the scene, and then she would say, go! And we would just start adlibbing and practicing, and she would write down our script.

Joy Spencer:
So we essentially created our own script, created and developed our own characters, and it was a perfect blend of structure and fluidity to allow for creativity. And so I share that story because it really until and this is the other powerful thing about storytelling, it gives you your self back. Before I had gone and had the conversation to to think through that story, I’d forgotten how important that experience was and formative it was in who I am, how I show up and work and in life. So the process, it wasn’t just a product of coming out with this story that I could put put into the talk. The process of going back and finding and unearthing this story gave me a part of myself back and a sense of like, oh, this is who I am, and this is why I am who I am. So another shameless plug for why storytelling is so important. It’s not just a product, but what the process can do for you as well.

Carol Cox:
And hear the difference between the first explanation of storytelling. And sure, you heard you heard Mrs. Jackson. So she had a name. You heard something about plays, but an unscripted. But that was pretty much it. And then you got the second version and you’re like, oh, now I can actually picture all the kids in the hallway. And then being excited about what this play is going to be and creating their own characters. And then now I feel like I know you joy so much more as a person. So then, you know, for those of you listening, think about for yourself, for your in these business environments, you may think, well, a story from when I was in third grade. What would that have to do with giving a presentation and a business or an academic context? But it makes you relatable and it makes you memorable. Now, Diane, how about you? Do you have, you know, a time that you’ve given a talk where a story was really central? And what what was that like?

Diane Diaz:
Yes, actually, Earl. And well, I’m going to say when I was working with you, Carol, on my talk so early on before I was with speaking of brand and I had my own business, the brand teacher, I was giving a talk about personal branding, and I was trying to instill this idea of sort of having the power to know that you can do certain things in your career. Right. But it starts with developing your own personal brand, and how you act is how you are. Right. And so I would use the story of how I became a triathlete, going from not knowing how to swim at the age of 37, learning how to swim at the age of 37, almost drowning every time I would swim, getting past that fear of the open water to finally doing the full Ironman distance, and sort of that idea of having to act like a triathlete in order to be a triathlete. And so the audience not only obviously got that message, but the story, even if they never experienced that. I started out as not a triathlete, so everybody can identify with that, wanting to do something challenging, not understanding how to do it, not knowing the skills needed, being bad at it.

Diane Diaz:
Everyone can identify with that and then how you have to push through. And so telling that story and it wasn’t about the triathlon, it was about, you know, acting as if so that you could then do the thing. That message really came through because of the story that I was able to use to illustrate that point. And so, so many people, they didn’t necessarily identify with the fact of being a triathlete unless they were. But they identified with that whole message. And in fact, I gave I used that story in a talk that I gave as a keynote talk to, I think about 600 women at the Orlando Women’s Conference. And interestingly, after I was done, when I was going back to the table, I one woman came up to me after the whole sort of, uh, portion of that, that session was over. She came up to me and said how much that inspired her because she had done a short distance triathlon before, and she remembered how powerful that made her feel. And then she now she wanted to do that again. So, you know, you never know how your story might impact someone.

Carol Cox:
And that’s another excellent example of number one, uh, sharing a story so that people can get to know you better. You’re inspiring them. You’re perhaps, you know, sharing them with something that is a not necessarily complex idea, but that idea, if you try to explain it without a story or without a metaphor, what kind of just people would just kind of go over people’s heads? So they really want to understand the how it was relevant to them, but then also it drives action and change. And this is what we talked about on last week’s episode about executive presence and getting buy in from your audience. And I feel like sharing a personal story helps your audience to know that they’re not alone, that you too, have experienced something or have been in their shoes, or have have done something that maybe they want to do. And so they’re more likely than to put themselves into their own story. Why that may be slightly different than your story. Like Diane, I maybe never will do a triathlon, but is there something that I do want to do that I can take inspiration from hearing your story and then Joy saying with you about this idea of of having things be unscripted again.

Carol Cox:
It’s like it’s a little vague and amorphous just hearing that, but then hearing the story, the example of the play, you’re like, oh, now I get it. Now I understand how maybe I can incorporate this idea of being unscripted in the power of that into the work that I’m doing. All right. So then let’s talk about some a particular model called public narrative. And I know, Joy, you know this really well because you’ve taken courses on it and you’ve really dove have digged into it over the years. And I like public narrative as well. A lot of politicians use it. Barack Obama very famously used it. Michelle Obama also used it. Their speechwriters use it because it’s very effective again, at persuasion and getting buy in from your audience and encouraging them to take action. But it could also be used very much in a business environment. And I think that’s where it originated from. Joy. So can you tell us about the public narrative model, what it is and why it’s so helpful?

Joy Spencer:
Yeah, so public narrative was developed by Marshall Ganz, who’s a lecturer, professor, and Harvard Kennedy School. And it really came out of his out of his work in organizing. And so that’s that’s sort of the connection with, um, the, the Democratic Party and, and Obama camp, etc., very instrumental in Obama, you know, coming to coming, um, becoming president because he essentially used that model. And so the the powerful thing about public narrative is that it builds on this. It builds on connection, right? Which if you want to as a leader or anyone, a movement builder or an organizer, if you want to bring people to action, you have to have influence with them, and you can’t have influence without connection. So public narrative is powerful with that connection, influence, action, sort of connection, um, sort of continuum. And so it has three parts. There’s the story of self, the story of us and the story of now. And what you’re doing in each of these is like in the story of self. You’re creating that sense of connection between you and the you, the person who is sort of sharing and bringing the message, you and your audience, because people have to feel connected to you, to even listen to you or be or want to take the action you’re going to invite them to. But that’s not just it and the story of us. You’re doing something really powerful. You’re you’re creating a sense of otherness in the room. You’re creating a sense that we who are in the room, who have come to listen to this person, are not just these disparate groups of people, but we have shared experiences and we have shared values. And that shared experience and shared values means that there’s power and there’s resource in our room for us to take action together, which is what we need in the story of now, in the story of now, that’s where we’re we’re being the speaker is sharing what the strategy is.

Joy Spencer:
What is our current urgent moment, what is it that we need to do? And we’ve already learned from the story of us that we have what it takes. And so here they share, like, this is what we can do and what we need to do next. And this is where you’ll have your call to action. So it’s a very powerful model. It’s a powerful leadership practice model that incorporates storytelling in to help leaders. And it’s the leader definition is very broad. It’s not just leader is titled leaders, but it’s anyone who’s willing to accept responsibility for enabling others to achieve purpose in the face of uncertainty. That’s the definition of leadership in the public narrative model. So if that’s you, if that’s what you want to do, this is a model that’s very useful and powerful for you to help bring your movement, your team and whoever, from a sense of disconnection to connection, build that influence so they can move on and and take the action that you want them to take at the end of the day. And it’s and I love it. It’s my absolute favorite model. I use it all the time in my storytelling, and I introduce it to leaders a lot and help leaders use it when they’re developing talks, especially because it’s a great way to combine story moments with building a broader narrative. It’s just it’s, um, check it out. If you’ve not checked it out, it’s I can’t say you know enough about it.

Carol Cox:
And we’ll I’ll include a link in the show notes to some, some articles about public narrative, the model. And also know Joy. We did a podcast episode back a couple years ago where we talked much more about that. So I’ll include a link in the show notes for that as well. And the other thing that public narrative is great for is Ted talks and Ted style talks. We have been fortunate enough to work with the University of California, DC center, which is hosted in Washington, DC. The executive director is Tanya Gillespie. She’s a graduate of our Thought Leader Academy, and so we have worked with her and University of California professors, both last year and this year, to help them create their ten minute Ted talks to deliver about their academic research. And like all good academics, they love their research. They love the details. They love getting into the nitty gritty of of what they’re doing. And for good reason, because they’re usually writing whole, entire books. Just about one. Particular area of the research. But to Tanya’s credit and the University of California, D.C. center, they want this research to have a broader impact on the general population and on policy making. So that’s why they’re having these professors deliver these talks. And so they brought us in to help them to craft these talks. And we very much used this public narrative model of story of self, story of us, and story of now to help them to frame how they’re how they’re presenting their research. So, Diane, as you’ve been working with these professors on their talks, what have you noticed about their storytelling and maybe their the surprise that they’ve had when they’ve worked with us and did our done our workshops about the importance of storytelling?

Diane Diaz:
What I have found with the groups that we’ve worked with and the individual clients that I’ve worked with on that, um, being that they’re academic and they often are a little bit resistant at first to tell stories specifically to tell their own story and why they’re connected to the message. And they don’t. They don’t necessarily at first see or understand the importance of their own story in the talk that they’re going to give, like, why? Why would I tell them about me? This isn’t about me, right? It’s about my research. It’s about what I found. It’s about what I’ve learned. I want to share that with them. And sometimes there’s a story in that, but someone else’s story. And so they they really have been at first a little bit resistant. But once we can get them on board with incorporating their own story, and then when we’ve done like the practice sessions within our our group calls, and then they see when someone else delivers that and includes their own personal story within it, and they can see the the shift of how powerful the message becomes. I think that’s where they buy in to how important it is for their story to be part of that talk, right. And why? Why the topic is so powerful for them. And sometimes it feels like it hasn’t been some earth shattering reason, but the why they’re connected to this message and why they’re connected to this general, you know, through line and main message that they want to convey that matters. So once they’re able to see another of the speakers do that, I think that’s where they’re like, oh, okay. Yes, I get it. Because now they feel the power of that message on them. And so now they want to do the same thing. So that’s sort of what I’ve noticed kind of across the board with those speakers.

Carol Cox:
And José, what about you? And you’ve actually been able to attend it live since you are in the DC area. So you got to see them last year. And this year we just got to watch them on the live stream. So from working with them and then seeing them deliver live, what has been the impact on helping them understand the importance of their personal stories?

Joy Spencer:
I agree with Diane. I think there’s that resistance because people just don’t get it and they don’t understand why they there. And I think what it is, is that they often miss that they are connecting to their research through their own personal story, and so they sort of forget that you need to articulate that, because really, nobody connects to ideas or data directly. We all connect to all of these things through people, people who are introducing it to us through the way that they’re telling a story or the way they’re telling someone else’s story. And so it’s not a vanity project project to introduce storytelling, because that’s literally how everybody understands everything. Advertising is that way. Everything is about personal story and personal connection. So, so once our the people who we work with suddenly realize that, oh, I’m connected to this research through my personal story. And the only way that people who I want to invite into action with me, who I want them to also think, feel and do something, um, the way that I do, and I’m passionate about it. The only way that they can get connected is not if I share this sterile, sort of like, intellectual version of this thing, but I need to bring them into a personal connection the same way that I have one.

Joy Spencer:
That’s how they can be as invested in this as I am. Once they realize that the storytelling and their personal connection to it is the route to get to where they want to get there, they’re on board, but it takes a little bit for them to get that. Aha! Oh, this is how I can you know, these people aren’t trying to derail me. Right. Because I’m focused on my research. I’ve got stuff to do. I’m trying to get to the research. They’re not trying to derail me with this storytelling thing. They’re actually helping me get to and achieve that goal. And, and, and I hope that people, you know, leaders from all walks of life finally get that, that storytelling is not a detour. It’s not a distraction. It’s the route to get to the action and the change and the transformation that you want to have. So it’s time to get on board.

Carol Cox:
Yes, you’re right, it’s not a derailment. It’s not a distraction. It really is the core. And also what I find is that when the speaker shares their story, they tend to be much more conversational in their delivery, which is what we encourage them to do. And I know especially for these ten minute talks, they want to write it all out and then they want to memorize every word. And of course, we tell them and we encourage them that it’s not really a good idea to memorize. It’s going to feel stilted, it’s not going to feel natural, and it’s definitely not going to feel conversational, which is another benefit. Whether you’re delivering a textile talk or a keynote or you’re presenting in front of executives, whatever it happens to be, I feel like we know our stories, so it almost lets us off the hook with having to write them out word for word, because we just tell them, like, just tell your story to us. I promise you, you know your own story. You don’t need to write it out. And Diane, I know you were in one of the calls where we had them practicing their delivery. And remember, there was one who was reading the script and we told them, okay, just stop, stop, stop. Like, don’t just put your script away, put that browser tab away. Just tell us your story and what a difference it made.

Diane Diaz:
It made a huge difference. And not only was he more conversational once he did that, but he lit up when he told the story, which then makes me as. The audience care more about what he’s saying, because I see how connected he is to what he’s saying. And his whole demeanor, his whole just physical presence changed. His facial expressions changed. He loosened up. He his eyes lit up. Everything about him was so visibly, and also his speech was so connected to that story he was telling about where he grew up and his father. He was so connected to it that I then felt compelled to really listen and pay attention. I wanted to know more. I wanted to hear the message he was sharing. So it changes everything about about your talk, not just the contents of it, but also the delivery of it that then brings the audience in more.

Carol Cox:
Oh, that’s such a good point about yes, you can, you can like the shift in the body language, the facial expressions, the energy. You really do notice that now, Joy. So, you know, we talked about academics and their textile talks and all that. But I know you also work with executives and people who work within companies who are whether they’re presenting internally or presenting externally. And how has this idea of storytelling impacted them?

Joy Spencer:
It’s been really powerful. And I think that what we talked, what you shared earlier about people being concerned about what to share and what’s appropriate in the work setting, it’s about sharing personal stories, not private stories. And so the the they often sort of go through the struggle and a challenge like, oh, can I share that? Do I share that? So what I often create is a space where we can sort of do what I call kitchen syncing. Like we just dump everything we just share. It’s like, this is a safe space. You don’t have to share any story that you share with me. It’s just to sort of like, get in the practice and get it out. And then they sort of see, oh, that they have a choice, that they can pick what they what they choose to share, you know. And so it’s like they’re not forced to, you know, pick a particular type of story and that personal stories, you know, can be about learning how to ride a bike or learning how to swim or about, you know, your first day of school. And these are powerful and compelling stories, but they’re not like your deepest, darkest secret, which nobody really wants to hear anyway, you know? And so and there’s so much power and fodder in them. So I really enjoy helping them to come through the process of becoming more comfortable with. I’m a leader, but I can and I should share these personal stories, which is going to help my team feel more connected to me, and it’s going to help me really help support them through these changes and these challenges that we have and, and that we’re, we’re going through.

Joy Spencer:
So so those are really fun and exciting moments. And what I’ve really seen is storytelling helped to build influence for these leaders. So I have a leader who I worked with recently, who she recently switched into a new executive position to a new team that she was not familiar with and who was not really familiar with her. And years prior, we’d worked on this on as part of a storytelling video series that I was heading up and helping leaders tell their stories. And these stories went, you know, would go out enterprise wide, she said. People were coming up to me and they were like, oh, I saw your story, you know, a couple of years ago. And I remember and it was powerful and it was impactful. And so she was walking into a room where she didn’t know people, but she already had some some connection and influence and that connection and influence. And she said, this all came through the story that I worked on. You worked on with you. That was it. They know nothing else about me except that they’ve heard and they’ve received this story. And so look at that powerful way to begin to build influence and to pave the way of possibility for you and a team before you even get, you know, into the door, um, get through the door. So I’ve seen it do some powerful thing for leaders that building those strong connections, building that influence, and helping them to really help their teams navigate through a lot of changes and challenges.

Carol Cox:
It really does help to build trust and credibility in a fast way. And especially again, I love your distinction between personal versus private stories. And I still feel like there’s a should be at least some vulnerability within the personal stories, because I feel like especially as a leader, if you’re not willing to be vulnerable and of course, in an appropriate manner, but then your team is not going to feel that sense of trust and connection with you and then being willing to be vulnerable with you. Yeah, I.

Joy Spencer:
Often tell leaders, nobody wants to hear your what I call triumphal stories. The stories that are like everything was great, and then it got better, and then it’s even better. And I’m awesome and like, you know, you should be awesome like me. Nobody cares about about those stories. But yeah, but to your point, a vulnerable story. It doesn’t, you know, it’s not necessarily your your darkest moment. Although I have had leaders share very personal stories of like tough diagnoses in their, in their, in their families and all of those things and and being and when you share that piece, that part of your vulnerability of you going through a difficulty coming out through the other end, whether it’s you and family or difficulty at work, you remind. Find yourself and you remind your team that you’re a human being. And that’s the most important piece that gets lost in corporate work. You walk through the doors and everybody forgets that they’re a human being. For some reason, the conversational talk goes away, the natural ebb and flow of storytelling goes away. And so really what storytelling does is it gives you back your humanity. It gives you back that ability to connect in the normal, natural way that you do. And that’s what teams are hungry for and really want to see from their leaders. Like, do you understand what I’m going through? Are you a human being like I am? And if you are, I can trust you. I can trust what you’re what you’re saying, and I can trust you through this dark, you know, path that we might need to walk through these turbulent times of constant change. Your teams are not going to follow you. They’re not going to trust you. If they don’t know you, they won’t know you. If they don’t see you being human. And they can’t see that. If you haven’t shared a vulnerable story, there’s just no way around it.

Carol Cox:
Yes, so. Well said. Thank you, Joy, for that. Now, Diane, I mentioned on last week’s episode that we had recently done a speaking workshop from some for some women here in the Orlando area who are running for office, and it was so fun to work with them on their speaking, but also on their storytelling. And can you tell us a little bit about what it was like when. So we had them deliver their stump speech to us after we had done a bunch of exercises with them, deliver their stump speech they had been doing. And then we offered some feedback about leading with story. So either switching some some the order up of what they were doing or really going into more detail on their story. So what what did you sense while while we were doing that?

Diane Diaz:
Well, it’s a little bit like the corporate space in that I think politics and sort of running for office, doing some speeches can become very sterile because it’s about, you know, the facts and what we can do for you and what what are we going to make happen, you know, and just like in a corporate environment becomes very sterile and just about business. It also running for office can feel that way. And I think, you know, probably most people delivering speeches in the political arena are probably going to be filled with facts and information and what the changes are that we want to happen. But it similarly to our, um, our academics who, when they change to more story based, lit up. We had the women first just deliver the stump speech and it was good information. And yet they were very passionate. And obviously they’re very well spoken and, you know, very accomplished women. So that all came through. But what did not come through was why I should care about you in particular, being the person that I’m going to vote for. You know why? Why does this why does running for office matter to you as the candidate? Not from what you can do once you’re in office. But why does it personally matter to you? And you know, I we’ve all heard political speeches and they they almost all follow some sort of pattern of, you know, making promises and like, you know, we’ve got to make change and whatever the things are that the formulaic things that they say, that’s great.

Diane Diaz:
But then when we had them retell their stump speech. But now start with your story, whatever that story is, but start with the story and just speak. Forget about what you’ve written down. Forget about what you normally say. Forget about about covering all the 15 points that you want to cover. Forget about all that. Just tell your story and why you’re here. Speaking to this audience today. So we had each women do that, and it was similar to the academics where they’re first of all, their whole body language changed. They became much more relaxed, not worried about hitting 15 different points. Right. They really just spoke from the heart. And frankly, standing there as a woman, hearing another woman just tell her personal story of why she’s running for office, to me, mattered so much because I want to know why you care so much about this topic or this this issue that’s compelled you to run for office. I want to know that because because I want to know you’re committed to it in some way. Right? So it tells me that it’s beyond just like, oh, I’m going to be well, not that they’re running to be well known or anything, because, I mean, that would be very hard to really make that the reason.

Diane Diaz:
But but he told me this more than just, you know, that you can accomplish these 15 different things, but you really have a personal stake in why you’ve chosen to run for this particular office at this particular time. And when each of the women did that, their body language changed, their facial expressions changed the emotion that they exuded. Which didn’t happen with listing the 15 points, but the emotion came through it. At each one of them had different reasons. They were, I think, there well, two of them were moms. I’m not a mom, but it still resonated with me because they’re women doing something for something that they care about. So that resonated with me, right? And so each of them completely change their demeanor. And frankly, I’d rather hear that type of a speech and I’d be more compelled to vote for someone than someone who lists 15 different things they’re going to do for me because I feel like, well, I don’t know. The other person said the same thing, like, so why you over them? But once you tell me that reason, that compelling reason, your story, your personal story, and I see how connected you are to your story and why it matters to you and that you feel compelled to make a change. Now you’ve got me right. And so their whole just their they just were more relaxed. Like everything about their delivery changed everything.

Carol Cox:
And I felt more emotionally connected to them. Not only did I feel the emotion from them, but I felt more emotionally connected. And what do we remember out of that entire 2.5 hours that we spent with them? We remember their stories. Yes, that is what sticks with us. And that’s like the bigger why of what they’re doing, like you said, versus the here’s this specific policy proposals. Now they still. Need to mention the policy proposal, but that comes after you’ve earned the trust and had that authentic connection with the audience.

Diane Diaz:
Yes, because I’m not going to remember the 15 different things Susie Smith said about why she’s running right. I’m going to remember that Susie Smith has a child with special needs in school, for example, and just couldn’t get those needs met and how much that impacted their families. So she’s running to make a change, right. That I’m going to remember.

Carol Cox:
Yes. All right. So let’s talk about some frameworks that you all can use for telling your story. So specific thing. So first we’re going to talk about the challenge choice outcome way to tell a story. And then we’re going to dig into the ingredients to use to tell a story versus an anecdote. Because there is a difference. We want to make sure that is for your key story. You’re actually using these storytelling ingredients. So Joy, I’m going to, uh, push it over to you to talk about us, about challenge, choice and outcome and why that’s really helpful for identifying the kinds of stories to share and then how to set them up.

Joy Spencer:
Well, it sort of shows you whether you have a story or not. Right. So challenge choice outcome comes also comes out of public narrative. And it’s really a powerful way to think about. Is there a character in your story and does this character. Is this character faced with a particular challenge like what’s what’s the obstacle? They want something. What is it that they’re trying to get to? And what does the what choice are they making in this story? And the powerful thing about choice is, and why choice is so important, is that choice reveals values without having to state them. And understanding a person’s values or the character’s values is what is also going to build that deeper sense of connection. And then you don’t want to leave people high and dry, right? These are not stories that you tell where it’s like cliffhanger or it’s like, no, don’t do that. So you always have to give us a very clear sense of what the outcome is. And if you’re if you’re thinking about a story moment that you’re trying to tell, you want to make sure that those elements are there, especially leaders, leadership stories like is there, is there. It’s great for leaders specifically because challenge stories with challenge are always going to help you to tell more vulnerable stories, which is what we talked about earlier, really needing to get to that.

Joy Spencer:
So what was the challenge? What was the challenge that I was faced faced in? What’s the moment that I can share that had that? What choice did I make so that people can get to know me a little bit better and know my values without me having to say, I am courageous. You just, you know, demonstrate it, show it through the story. And and then and then what happened. And then you can build build from there, like what the lessons are and all the things that you want to do. But without those elements, really, you can’t really honestly say that you have a story. So it’s a it’s there great postmarks um or sorry. No, they’re great signposts to help you know, that you are actually telling a story. And if anything is missing, to go back and make sure that you’re, um, pulling those threads and making sure that you’re articulating them. So I that’s that’s a really good one. It’s just a basic like, am I telling a story or not? Do you have challenge, choice and outcome?

Carol Cox:
And I think that’s so important. Joy, because sometimes we may think of a story of, you know, an experience we’ve had and we know that it was challenging. It was a difficult time, but we don’t really think about the choices necessarily we made. We just know that something happened, but we don’t think about the alternatives. So I remember back this was before our first summit in 2020, October 2020, and I was working with both of you, you and, uh, and Diane to create my own summit speech. Right. Because I was going to do, I think, the opening speech and it was about my time in politics. And, you know, how everything was great until it wasn’t. And then I remember Joy, you’re like, okay, well, what was the moment like? What was the moment where you realized, like, okay, you had to make a decision? Like you were faced with this challenge. You know, these people who were your supporters and they started bullying you and how you felt. And I was like, oh, yeah, I always my, the, my version of the story was right. So I had this experience in politics, you know, I it was all great until it wasn’t.

Carol Cox:
And then I just kind of went away. But then Joy’s like, no, no, no, but what was the choice you made. Oh I’m like, oh, now I see the choice was that I chose to walk away. Instead of standing up to fight back. And like I said in my summit speech, that wasn’t the empowered woman that I wanted to be or that I would like to be seen as right. It’s a vulnerable story to share. I wish I had made a different choice, but I realize that I that was the choice I made because I didn’t have another support system to help me through that. They were my support system, the ones who had turned against me. And then I later realized that that’s why I started speaking your brand and subconsciously, to provide women with the support system when they’re out there using their voice. So. So for those of you listening, think about you may have a challenging situation, but then what was that choice and what did it reveal to you, whether it was the good part or maybe the not so good part? But then what did you do with it afterwards?

Joy Spencer:
I love that because that’s a classic example of a story giving you your power back, just going in and getting deep and beginning to understand what your choices were. And that’s what our stories can do for us, the practice of being in storytelling. It’s not just what we can do for others and how we can connect to others, but really how we can reconnect to ourselves and to our the powerful parts of ourselves that are going to, you know, help shape and make a difference for others. So I’m glad that you I’m glad that you got that piece, got that piece out from that conversation.

Carol Cox:
It’s very liberating. I we talk, you know, we work with women all the time. And our thought leader academy and, you know, and understandably, some of them are hesitant to share those stories. And I say to them, you know, as appropriate, the story you’re most reluctant to share is probably the one that you should share, not just for the benefit of your audience, but really for your own benefit, because they will feel very liberating to to share that. All right. So Diane let’s talk about our ideal storytelling ingredients. So we have this model of public narrative story of self story of us. Story of now kind of like the big, you know, building blocks of of your talk or your presentation we talked about for a particular story, the challenge, choice and outcome. But then we also want to make sure we’re telling the story in a way that’s captivating to our audience. So let’s run through the ideal storytelling ingredients, and then we can talk about how, especially with those candidates that we were working with, how having them use these ingredients really made their stories come to life.

Diane Diaz:
Yes. So I love these ingredients because I think it gives you also almost like a recipe, right? The ideal story ingredients. It’s like a recipe to make sure that you have these elements in your story, so that you can make sure that your story is as impactful as possible, and so specifically so the ideal story ingredients ideal being the acronym because we love acronyms. Right. So imagery dialogue, emotion action and lesson. And it kind of still follows that challenge choice and outcome. Right. So it still works within that framework, but specifically related to our academics that we were working with on their talks. They I think they did a really good job of incorporating these elements into their talks. And their talks were very short. So, you know, it has to be really tight, right? But especially if you’re giving, you know, maybe you’re giving a 45, 35, 45 minute talk. You can really wrap these in. So, so with imagery, for example, the gentleman we were talking about, who we asked him to just, you know, speak from the heart and not read his script imagery was sort of setting us in the place of where his story was taking place. Where was he talking about his father and the things that he instilled in him, where he grew up, I think in Kenya was where he grew up.

Diane Diaz:
So really placing us there in that moment and then dialogue. So I remember in when we were giving the feedback, we were telling him, you know, maybe you could say. And so then, then my father said to me and then I said to him, right. So really instead of just relaying so she said to me this like, oh. And then she said, Susan, why don’t you do this? And then I said, right, actually do the dialogue. Don’t just relay what the conversation was. And then for emotion, incorporate how you felt in that moment. Were you moved by the situation? So how did he feel knowing that what was going on in his home country, or how that relates to what’s going on in this country? So they were doing talks on reparations. How did that make him feel? How did he feel growing up, you know, as a child, what were the emotions involved in that? And then the actions of what actually took place, what actions happened? What did you do? What did they do? What you know what what happened? And then the lesson. So what is the lesson? Not only that, he might have learned from having grown up in Kenya and then coming here and all the research he’s done on reparations, but also, what is the greater lesson that the audience can take away from what you’re sharing with them? So then, so it sounds almost like, well, how am I going to wrap all those ingredients into a ten minute talk? But it doesn’t have to be so long and drawn out and some of these kind of wrap into one another.

Diane Diaz:
So, you know, imagery and dialogue can work together, right? So you can make them work together so that you can incorporate all of them into the talk, but especially in a ten minute talk, having painting that picture so that the audience feels like they’re part of the story and that they’re in the scene and that they they are feeling the emotion too. That is so important, especially in that ten minute talk, to make sure that the audience feels moved, to take the action that you’re asking them to take. And in that case, they’re talking about reparations and caring about supporting these efforts towards reparations. She got to make them feel something. So this this ideal story ingredients helps the audience, brings them into that message, then makes them feel that too. Then they want to take action as well. They’ve got the lesson. They know they can make a change. And so now you’ve you’ve got them.

Carol Cox:
And this is the power of these ideal storytelling ingredients, is that you want to drop into one specific moment in time or one day, because I think this is where stories end up as anecdotes instead of as stories, because we kind of like paint this broad brush. We’re like, oh, you know, I was at this job one time that, you know, I didn’t really like. And it was because of this, you know, these things were going on. But it’s like, well, okay, but you’re not really telling me, much like, tell me about a specific day like you were at, you know, you were in your cubicle and then someone came over and they said this to you or, and, you know, and then you realize that, you know, you wanted to go start your own business instead, whatever the story was like, when Joy at the beginning of this episode talked about Mrs. Jackson, the, you know, the kind of the overview at the beginning, but then talking to us about having, you know, the play announcement on on the bulletin board and the kids in the hallway. Now, that was one specific day, one moment in time. And the same thing with those women running for office. When we asked them, okay, take us to one moment. Take us to the day where this issue became central to your life. And then they knew that moment right away, like they didn’t have to dig for it. They knew what that was. And then they just told us about that morning, and that’s where we felt that emotional connection to them was from that one specific moment in time.

Diane Diaz:
Yes. And I think when Joy was giving her example, she when she said, running down the green hills, I visualized the green. You literally visualize it because it’s so it is so specific and colorful. And now I’m in it.

Carol Cox:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, Joy, what else would you like to add to our our conversation so far?

Joy Spencer:
Yeah, I want to talk about using stories as metaphors, because leaders I find often struggle with finding the right story to tell. So they often are. They think about, oh, they think about the situation. And then they’re like, well, hmm, how do I find a story for this? And I tend to do it the other way around. Your stories are so rich with lessons, with themes, with so much that you don’t know what’s in them. So. A building, a story bank by just going through and finding all these different story moments that you’ve had in your life, like going as early as you can and coming up to as present as you can. You know, remembering the first time your mom brought home a puppy, you know, again, you know, the bike riding or when you first met your best friend at school, all these different things. Just think about these different moments. Right. And it it is about those moments. And then ask, what can I learn from this or, or what does what else does this make me think of? You know, learning how to ride a bike, you know, is like learning new technology at the office. Or, you know, getting a puppy for the first time is like, I don’t know, what is it like?

Carol Cox:
Like love. Just like it’s like love, right?

Joy Spencer:
You’re right. It’s like so, so just thinking about what is the story a metaphor for. And then that can help you find so many rich contexts in which you can use these stories that you use typically think, oh, that doesn’t match or, or where would I use this story? And it’s like, you can bring so many personal story moments. And by finding what the underlying theme is or the lesson that you can learn from them and really help you in a work setting. So I have an example. There was a leader who I was working with, who she was. We were working on developing her story for a diversity and Inclusion and belonging video series as part of her her team. And so she’s Puerto Rican and converted, converted to Islam later in life. And she wanted she was struggling to find a story or how to tell the story around that. So and she wears a hijab. So it was starting to become a little on the nose. Right. You know, and so I was like, we don’t have to do the story that way. It doesn’t have to be about you being a Puerto Rican woman who became a muslim and and you wear a hijab and all that. It doesn’t have to be that. Let’s just talk. Let’s just talk. Let’s go through your life. Just tell me different stories. So we went back and we were just telling different stories, and she was just sharing.

Joy Spencer:
And she shared a story about her dad and about how she and her dad ran out into the eye of a hurricane one time to check on her car. And they, you know, things were quiet in the eye of the storm. But then the wind started to pick up again. And so they were booking it and running home, and they finally got home and ran into the house, burst out laughing, and their mom was like, what is wrong with you people? Why would you go out in a hurricane? And then I asked her, well, why would you go out in a hurricane? And then we just started teasing through what the lessons were in that. And for her it came up like, well, the only person she would have done that with was her dad. And I’m like, okay. And so we started talking about trust and what we will do with people who we really trust. And so we made the connection. We’re like, okay, well, what about and this is the story of us. Right? Then we switch to maybe people, um, wouldn’t run out in a hurricane, but you’ve been part of a military, um, troop, or maybe you’ve been a part of a sports team. You understand what it is to run into danger with people who you trust. And so now, in this moment where our team, we’re faced with the challenges and sometimes the difficulties of wrestling through diversity and inclusion and belonging.

Joy Spencer:
And it’s not going to be sunshine and rainbows, and there’s going to be challenges, and sometimes it’s going to feel like a hurricane. But because we trust each other, we can get through this. We can get through all of it together. Look at that. We use her story as a metaphor, right? Like we didn’t try to, like, come up with all these fancy things to say, but the richness of what the talk became was in the power of that story moment. But we let the story tell and reveal to us all these powerful nuggets, and then we just made the connections going forward. So if I leave folks with nothing else, you have so many rich, powerful stories that that could potentially be really powerful talks, if you will trust your story moments to tell you and to reveal to you that the treasure that they have within them. And that’s using story as metaphor. And I absolutely, I love working with folks that way because it gives them themselves and their stories back. They’re just like, oh wow, I didn’t know there was so much treasure and power in my story because I was judging my stories and just trying to get to the end without sort of like starting from just, let’s just sit with the story and see what it tells us. So I love doing that.

Carol Cox:
What a great example, joy. And that is also the power of having a coach, of working with someone, of talking about stuff out loud because you are so close to your own story, you know, you’ve either, you know, thought about it in your head or told it with your family members or whatever for so long that you know the specifics of the story, but you don’t necessarily know the universal themes or the lessons, or it’s harder for you to pick those out because you’re so close to it, because you were the one doing those things. So that is the power of working with us and our thought leader Academy as we do, as we help women clarify their ideas, pinpoint those key stories and build them out, and of course, create their entire signature talks as well. You can get all the details about our Thought Leader Academy at speaking your brand. Com Slash Academy. Joy is also the host of a fantastic podcast called Reframe to Create. I’ll make sure to include a link to that. So if you already enjoyed listening to. Podcast. Make sure in your podcast app to search for, reframe, to create and follow that and listen to Joy’s episode. Of course, connect with us on LinkedIn. All those links are in the show notes as well. Diane and Joy, thank you so much for once again coming on the Speaking Your Brand podcast. I am so grateful to have both of you as such, valued contributors to the work we do here at Speaking Your Brand. It truly does fulfill the mission that we have to empower more women, but just more people in general to tell their stories so that not only for their audiences but also for themselves, for positive change in the world. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Until next time. Thanks for listening.

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