282-SYB-Jodi-Flynn.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Carol Cox:
Have you been hesitant to go bold with your thought leadership message and you’re not alone? Listen to my conversation with Jody Flynn on this episode of The Speaking Your Brand podcast. More and more women are making an impact by starting businesses running for office and speaking up for what matters. With my background as a TV political analyst, entrepreneur and speaker. I interview and coach purpose driven women to shape their brands, grow their companies and become recognized as influencers in their field. This is Speaking Your Brand, your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience. This conversation you’re about to listen to with my guest, Jodie Flynn, is so good that I’ve taken the audio from the LinkedIn Live, which is what originally was and put it on the podcast because I wanted more of you to hear it. Before we get into that, I wanted to make sure that you know about our Summit Speakers reunion that we’re hosting on June 21st. We held two virtual summits live and one in 2020 and one in 2021 called Brave Bull. Beyond, they were incredible events. Ten women speakers at each one delivering ten minute TED style talks where they really dug deep into their stories and connected their stories to their big ideas. We coach them. We help them to get to the point where they can deliver their talk live in front of a virtual audience. And they did. Amazing. We’re sharing this event with you now, the summit speakers reunion, because we want you to hear and to learn what it was like to create a transformational talk, a TEDx style talk, what it took for them to be truly vulnerable with their story, what it was like and what they’ve been doing since then.
Carol Cox:
This is an entirely free event that is happening live June 21st. You can register by going to Speaking Your Brand reunion. Again, that’s speakingyourbrand/reunion. Now let’s get on with the show. Hi there. Welcome to Backstage with Speaking Your Brand. I’m Carole Cox, founder and CEO Speaking Your Brand. Today. We are talking about how to go bold with your thought leadership message. My guest today is Jody Flynn, who has a company called Women Taking the Lead. She also has a fantastic podcast called Women Taking the Lead. And we’re going to chat today about how Jodi has become much more bold with her own thought leadership message over the past few months, especially when she went through our Thought Leader Academy. She just graduated a couple of weeks ago. So we’ll also chat a little bit about her experience in the Thought Leader Academy. But I know you’ve been doing a lot of speaking. You’ve had your podcast for a number of years now, you’ve done a lot of speaking in presentations and you’re really good at it, and I know that you enjoy it a lot. So what was the kind of the process for your what was that aha moment where you felt like, okay, I think I need to go bolder with what I’m talking about first.
Jodi Flynn:
Carol, thank you so much for inviting me on your LinkedIn live. This is amazing. And yes, you’re right. I have done a lot of speaking and I will say this is counter to what most people feel about speaking. But I.
Carol Cox:
Love it.
Jodi Flynn:
I really do. Not to say I don’t get nervous before a presentation, I want to do a great job. I get the jitters. I might might get a little like butterflies in my stomach, all of that stuff. But I have learned over time to channel that energy into my presentations. And a minute in, I’m like, I am in my zone and I love this. And there was a particular type of presentation that I was comfortable with and I leaned on and it was more of a workshop style presentation. And in fact there were times where I was asked, Can you make this kind of a workshop? We want to make sure that there are takeaways and actions that the participants can do. We want this to be high value. And I was like, Absolutely, yes, I can do that. But then I noticed the more I was speaking, the more I was being invited to do keynote style presentations. And I mean, I’ve seen keynote presentations. They’re amazing. But I really didn’t understand the difference between the two. And for a long while I would turn my keynote presentations into that workshop type format, and it worked for a long while until it didn’t. It was not working anymore. I was getting to the level that when an event planner asked for a keynote presentation, they had a certain type of presentation in mind and I was running into stumbling blocks and, you know, had disappointed someone who hired me. And of course, I’ve been following you for years. We’ve known each other for a while and have know I’ve had some of my clients have hired you to work with them, and I’ve always had it on my list of like, okay, as soon as I have the bandwidth and the time I’m going to hire Carol, we’re going to hone this out. And after an experience I had last fall, I was like, That’s it, that’s it. I’m I’m done with trying to figure this out on my own. I need professional help to help me develop my keynote. Presentation.
Carol Cox:
Well, Jordi, thank you for sharing that. And for those of you who are watching right now, either live or in the replay, if you can relate to what Jodi is talking about as far as you feel really good with the workshop style presentations, with teaching, with training, that’s really kind of your wheelhouse and your comfort zone, but you feel like it’s a little bit more challenging to go into more of the keynote story driven kind of big picture type of talks, because you may feel like it’s less tangible or like you’re providing less valuable takeaways for the audience. And I know that so many of us, because we start speaking and doing the teaching and training as type of speaking engagements, it can be hard to shift to kind of this other style of presentations. So Jodi, can you tell us a little bit about the work that you do in women taking a lead, who you work with, kind of what challenges your clients are facing and what you help them to get to. So let’s talk about that first and then we’ll come back and talk about your thought leadership message related to that.
Jodi Flynn:
So in Women Taking the lead, I’m an executive leadership coach and I’m I specialize in working with women leaders in that first year after a promotion when they’re still trying to stabilize, it is not uncommon for women and men to to be promoted. And the style of leadership that’s required at this new level is not what has made them successful thus far. And so they have a hard time letting go of the old ways of operating as a leader and embracing the new ways. And for women specifically, some of the things they have to let go of is perfectionism. People pleasing, needing to be in control, wanting to have like their hands in every project, attending all the meetings to make sure all the information is gathered and is correct. And so if they don’t immediately start to adapt to the new level of leadership, they start to become overextended and exhausted. And so I coached them through that transition to operate at a new level, to almost take on a completely new identity. And what really hits me in my business is when women have been promoted, they’re successful, they’re talented, they’re driven, they’re amazing. And they say things like, I don’t want the next one. You know, this is already too much. Like, I like I can’t, you know, and so they’re already deciding, like this is as far as I go, because, you know, sometimes I’m working with clients who have made tremendous.
Carol Cox:
Sacrifices.
Jodi Flynn:
To their health, well-being and their personal life, you know? So the thought of taking on more is just beyond them.
Carol Cox:
Yeah. And that’s really obviously because I know you’re a huge proponent, as am I, of having more women in leadership positions. And so if they’re feeling like they don’t even want to go further within that company to have more promotions because they’re there, they’re still trying to do too much in that kind of that previous identity that they held.
Jodi Flynn:
Yeah. You know, it’s counterintuitive to at that point to think like, oh, I want the next one. You know, like, I’m ready. I’m ready to take it on. Internally, we get this feeling of like, nope, I need to put the brakes on. What they don’t realize is it’s how they’re operating, right? And so as much as, you know, when when we’re first talking, you know, my heart goes out to them and I’m like, oh, you know, I’ve been there. I understand that feeling and I’ve done that to myself as well. But this can be fixed, right? With a few tweaks of how you’re doing things. All of a sudden you will have more time, more energy and more confidence in the work that you’re doing. And you won’t need to overextend yourself to get it all done.
Carol Cox:
Yeah. Okay. So now Jodi, so that seems like a very straightforward kind of business sales and marketing message, right, to your clients, like, okay, potential client, here’s what you’re facing. I understand this like the validation and here’s what I can help you to do so that you can achieve X, Y, Z, right? So that’s like a business sales marketing check, tech, tech. But then we have the thought leadership side, which I always kind of liken to your thought leadership is parallel to your business, so it supports what you do in your business, but it’s not quite the same thing as your sales and marketing message because it’s like it’s a bigger picture, it’s a bigger idea of what’s going on societally, like industry wide or society wise that is causing these things to happen in the first place. So Jody, can you share a little bit about your thought leadership message and why there was some hesitancy initially to kind of say the things that you really wanted to say around it?
Jodi Flynn:
Yes, I will say coming into the program, when we started thinking about, okay, what’s my message? You know, and at first it was like. I got to make sure I get it right. But I realized, like, I’ve had this message for quite a while. I have been working with women and had my own experiences for quite some time. I’ve been doing research, you know, I’ve been reading the articles that come out on the latest women in the workplace and companies, all of that. And I’ve known for a long time that companies benefit from having more women in senior leadership and on their corporate boards like it’s researched. It’s validated, right? It’s it’s I almost want to shout to the world like, ladies, we don’t have to prove ourselves anymore, right? Like, there was a time when, you know, people questioned, can women be leaders? Can they do this? Like, yes, they can. Not only can they do.
Carol Cox:
It.
Jodi Flynn:
They are necessary right for the health and the longevity of these companies. Right. And so when I think about that and I think about all the sacrifices that women are making to try to achieve higher levels of leadership, what they have to go through, the pressures that are within work and outside of work that are put on women in, they’re still feeling like, you know, I have to prove myself. I have to struggle. My thought is this is backwards y like it has been proven. Like you are necessary, you are needed. The problem is the obstacles within companies that are preventing women from rising to senior leadership as quickly as men are. And these obstacles can’t necessarily be changed by the women who don’t have the power to do so, right? Like they’re almost invisible until somebody points them out that this is this is a problem. But until then, these women are struggling to overcome these obstacles. And so when we were honing our leadership message and I was thinking about, well, how would I deliver this? What would I title it? And we came down to Women don’t need to change. Companies need to change and they need to change because these companies need women in senior leadership more than women need these companies. And so that was exciting. And then the next step was I started thinking about saying that publicly and instantly. And I know you’ve talked about this on your podcast and you shared it on LinkedIn was almost like a perceived backlash that came at me and I got scared, right?
Carol Cox:
It was like.
Jodi Flynn:
Like my like I one, I was like sometimes on the calls, I’d be holding my throat to self, soothe myself, you know, to try to like when I think about doing this and you know, it was what we call the imposter syndrome, you know, what made me so uncomfortable was, you know, I don’t I don’t have a PhD in organizational development or organizational leadership. You know, who am I to deliver this message? I haven’t written a scholarly book, right. And all of that. And so thoughts of that nature like I can’t be the one to deliver this message. The message was fine. We just we, we, we got there. But I didn’t believe in myself as the messenger. And that’s what I bumped up against in the program.
Carol Cox:
Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And this is real. This happens. I know to me I know this happens to so many of the other women that I talk to. So you are far from alone and but yet it’s real. And I’m sure that your clients also are experiencing this in the corporate environment that they’re in as well.
Jodi Flynn:
100% right. When they’re, you know, not speaking up for themselves or advocating or asking for what they want. I know what’s going through their head is, well, I can’t do that. They won’t listen to me. Who am I? You know, this is just the way things are and I have to deal with it. Yep. 100%. Same thought process.
Carol Cox:
So, Jody, how are you feeling now about this? About being the messenger for this very important message?
Jodi Flynn:
Completely different, like complete 180 turned around and it was in one of our masterminding calls in the program that I shared this, and I didn’t know what was going to come of it, but I was like, okay, it’s it’s not getting the work done for me. That’s the problem. It’s the mindset. Every time I try to develop this keynote, it is a struggle because of this, this thought that keeps going through my head. And a couple of the women on the call and Diane, I remember specifically was like, what are you talking about? Like, because I’ve been my business will be 12. Years and just a couple of months. I’ve had my own experiences as a senior leader in an organisation and I’ve been coaching women who are senior leaders in organisations for years and years and years. And there was this like you have been a part of these intimate conversations with women who are going through this, right? And I tie it back to one of my favorite songs in Hamilton is In the Room Where It Happens, right? I’m in the room where it’s happening, where women are having honest conversations about what’s going on with them at work and the struggles that they’re having and the perspective I have. And those experiences allow me to be the messenger of this particular message. Like, I can bring this to leaders and organisations and say, I’ve heard women talking, here’s what they’re saying and here’s what the problems are. And that that was just a turning point. It was like, Oh yeah, okay, I can do this.
Carol Cox:
Yes, those are your credentials. You don’t need to have had a PhD or have written a scholarly journal article that’s been peer reviewed. Yes, those things are great and I’m so glad that there are people out there who are doing that type of research and that type of data collection, putting that out there. But where you’re doing, it’s kind of like in the field, like an anthropologist in the field collecting the stories and the information in the data in that way.
Jodi Flynn:
Yeah, no, I love how you just said that, Carol. It’s a different perspective. Right? There are the people who who do the research and the study, but then there are the people who are like, I’m I’m boots on the ground like I am boots on the ground reporting back. Here’s what’s going on and here’s what needs to change. Right. It’s great to have.
Carol Cox:
Theories.
Jodi Flynn:
And study and research and things of that nature. But I am hearing it, you know, like from the horse’s mouth, there’s got to be a better analogy than that. But I am hearing it straight from these women.
Carol Cox:
Yeah. And that is that is so incredibly valuable for the organizations who you’re talking to. All right. So let me share I’m going to put this up on the screen here. So this is our voice thought leadership model. So this something that I came up with because of course, I love acronyms, so I put together these things and I can’t help but define an acronym for it. So voice stands for something and so you have your viewpoint for your topic area, which Jody, clearly you have the AU is open, bold and direct communication. The eye is an individual story that you universalize see as a container for your message and then is being emotive, real and vulnerable in your content and in your delivery. And so, Jody, I feel like you have been you worked on these in the Theatre Academy to develop this into your overall thought leadership message and into your signature talk, the keynote that you worked on. And I remember in your graduation speech that you shared a very powerful story about kind of what led you to the passion and the interest you have for the work that you do today to help women. Do you would you this is I’m totally putting Jody on the spot here. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that?
Jodi Flynn:
No, absolutely, Carol. I’m happy to. I mean, this this really set me on a path. And the story I shared, I was about four years old, and it was summertime in the late 1970s, which dates me. And I remember it was summer because I remember this the summer dresses with those straps that, you know, but I had a sweater on because we were going to church. And it was an exciting day because my brother Sean was going to be on the altar for the first time serving as an altar boy. So it was like, Ooh, this is going to be fun. So we went, we, we sat in the pew and I remember just sitting in the pew. My parents like to sit in the front pew too. So we’re in the front and I have perfect line of sight on my brother and I’m watching him do his thing and I’m like, Oh, that’s amazing. It’s like a performance, you know, like, this is great. Like, like, and I remember thinking, like, I want to do that, right? And as we were walking out of the church, I said to my mom, I was like, When I’m old enough, I want to be an altar boy, too. And my mother looked down at me and she said, You can’t be an altar boy. You’re a girl. Only boys can serve. And, you know, I was kind of like, oh.
Carol Cox:
Like.
Jodi Flynn:
Just a little taken aback. And I think for me, it at four years old, created like an awareness of things. Like I started watching things a little more closely, the differences between what men were doing and what women were doing, what men were allowed to do, and what women were not allowed to do, what we believed men to be and what we believed women to be. And it was even more galling about five years later when I watched my brother Steve, my younger brother Steve up on the altar, serving as an altar boy. And it was so crushing. And I. I remember at some points just. Being beside myself. Like, why this? This makes no sense. I think any girl can can understand that that that moment of, like, this makes no sense to me at all. And I at times was angry about it as well. And it just. It has been, I would say, my unofficial unintended life work, life’s work to figure this out and to change that right to to to remove obstacles to women, you know, doing these things like when they want to serve, especially when they want to serve and they want to contribute back, let’s not stop them. And I’ll go even further. And I will say many of the predicaments that we’re experiencing globally in our current error is due to the fact that women have not been a part of the conversation and they have not been in positions of authority and decision making power. And whatever I can do to change that and to remove those obstacles and make it easier for women to not only get to senior leadership, but to stay there. Right. And to feel good in those positions. I’m going to do it.
Carol Cox:
Well, Dorie, thank you so much for sharing that story. I know how personal that is to you and how you still feel it. And I feel the same way about childhood stories, too. And and but you can see how your overall thought leadership message that it’s not the women who need to change is the organization. It was not you who needed to change as a little girl who wanted to serve. It was the church, right. The organization that needed to change to allow girls to do that.
Jodi Flynn:
Right. It was like, I’m great, I don’t need to change. And, you know, I’m happy to say they have my niece, Vanessa, is an altar server at her church. And I’m I’m thrilled. But let’s let’s remove all the obstacles. Right. There’s more. There’s so many more. I’m glad to see that one go away. But there’s so many more that we need to work on.
Carol Cox:
Yeah. And that’s why I’m so grateful for you and for so many of the other women who are doing this work as really their life’s work. Jody, as you went through the Thought Leader Academy earlier this year, was there anything that surprised you about the experience or that kind of like you worked on something or something came to you that you weren’t expecting?
Jodi Flynn:
That’s a great question. I guess the level of structure in the program I wasn’t expecting like the trainings were great, the worksheets were great. I’m, I’m a bit type-A. So I do like structure. I like to know there’s a there’s a path and there’s a plan. But also what I really appreciated, like I didn’t realize how much the women in the program were going to contribute to my thought leadership and my message, like so much value and so much gold came from you and Diane and the other participants. Sometimes just giving their feedback or giving one piece of like, I like this, or you should do I, you know, I would recommend doing a little more of this. And it made all the difference in the world, like having that supportive community while you’re doing something that, while it’s simple, is not easy, you know, that that I didn’t expect. And that was amazing.
Carol Cox:
Oh, well, I’m so glad to hear that. Jody and I want to give a shout out to some of the women who are watching right now live. Hi, Mary Beth. So nice to see you. Hi, Monica. She says believe in yourself as the messenger. Yes. And she says and then she was talking about the organization needs to change. And Monica said, especially when girls and women are willing vessels like we’re willing participants. And then hiking. Martin is in our current Thought Leader Academy that just started, she says, not having credentials. It’s something that’s been holding her back as well. So yeah. And then Diane is here as well, of course, our lead speaking coach. And she says, So glad that you’re working to change the message that too often girls receive that they can’t do something or they’re not supposed to do something, or they’re not the right fit for something.
Jodi Flynn:
And in organizations that still goes on, some of the research I’ve been doing is when the job is difficult for women, they will get subtle encouragement to take a step back. Really? Yes. Whereas men will be given encouragement to like dig in, keep going. Women tend there tends to be a different conversation of like, oh, well, you might want to think about, you know, not going after that promotion or not being on this. I know there’s a lot of demands on you because you have a family, you know, that that sort of thing. So there’s this bias of like and I truly believe that like often it comes with the intention of support. Like, I want to support you, I don’t want you to struggle. So sometimes it’s that that process of we don’t want to make women struggle. We don’t want it to be, we know you have enough on your plate. We don’t want it to be harder. But those are also things that sideline women’s careers and make it harder for women to get to senior leadership.
Carol Cox:
Well, basically curtailing their ambition. Right. Wow. Wow. Okay. Well, so glad that you are discovering this by these conversations that you’re having with women in these organizations.
Jodi Flynn:
It’s shocking.
Carol Cox:
Yeah, it is. So our Thought Leader Academy is the program that Jody just graduated from. And if that’s something that you’re interested in learning more about, you can do so by going to Speaking Your Brand academy in the Speaking Your Brand academy. And it truly is kind of like this is my life’s work is to put together a program like this that helps women like Jody and some of the other women that have gone to the academy and are going through it right now to find that clarity and that confidence to put themselves out there in a bolder way. Because we know, number one, it’s not always easy. This is my own experience throughout my career. Having that support system of other women for me makes all the difference and also getting validation on your thought, leadership message and your idea so that, you know, like, yes, I’m headed in the right direction. This is something that’s important and that’s going to resonate with my audience. I think that I also find that’s useful for so many of the women who we talk to.
Jodi Flynn:
Oh, 100%. I was just thinking I was like having flashbacks of the experience I had with the women for myself as well, and how much I enjoyed contributing to the other women as well when they were sharing their thought leadership. And instantly I could think of like studies and research out there, you know, that I’m like, that’s a great idea. Like, yes, it’s so needed, like just helping them to one believe in it. Like I needed to believe in my message but also honing it. Right. So they feel comfortable and confident delivering.
Carol Cox:
Absolutely. So for those of you who are watching this on LinkedIn, make sure to connect with Jody here on LinkedIn. You can find her Jody, Jody Flynn, F, L, Y and RN. And then also make sure to take a listen to Jody’s podcast called Women Taking the Lead. She really does fantastic solo episodes. I enjoy listening to them. And I’m not a woman in corporate, clearly, but I learn things from listening to Jody’s episode. So if you’re an entrepreneur, you will listen to them as well. She’s had episodes on asking for help, investing and help that you need, things that that so many of us could benefit from listening to. And Jody, share with us your website, address and anywhere else you would like people to connect with you.
Jodi Flynn:
My website is women. It’s plural women taking the lead aecom and honestly, LinkedIn is the best place to connect with me. You can send me a message. Connect with me. Tell me that you saw me on Carol’s LinkedIn live and I would be happy to connect with anyone and start building a relationship.
Carol Cox:
Well, Jerry, thank you so much for coming on backstage with Speaking Your Brand.
Jodi Flynn:
Thank you for having me, Carol. And thank you to everyone for joining.
Carol Cox:
Was in that conversation. So good make sure to connect with Jody on LinkedIn. There are links in the show notes to her LinkedIn profile and mine as well as to her website. Also, make sure to check out her fantastic podcast called Women Taking the Lead. If you want to hear more about what it’s like to create transformational talks and thought leadership messages and to dig into your personal story, you’re not going to want to miss our Summit Speakers reunion happening live on June 21st. It’s entirely free. You can register by going to Speaking Your Brand reunion. Until next time. Thanks for listening.
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