389-SYB-Denise-Musselwhite.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Carol Cox:
Listen in to my conversation with Denise Musselwhite all around empowering women in the age of AI. On this episode of the Speaking Your Brand podcast. More and more women are making an impact by starting businesses, running for office and speaking up for what matters. With my background as a TV political analyst, entrepreneur and speaker, I interview and coach purpose driven women to shape their brands, grow their companies, and become recognized as influencers in their field. This is speaking your brand, your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience. Hi and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast. I’m your host, Carol Cox. We are continuing the series we’ve been doing all around, inspiring you to use your voice no matter what your topic or your industry. If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that I’ve been really excited about artificial intelligence and ChatGPT and all of the ways that it can help us both personally and professionally. Well, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Denise Musselwhite, who was a CIO. That’s the chief information officer for many years. She has a deep background in it, and she is such a strong advocate for women’s empowerment and leadership in technology. We talk about her journey to becoming one of the few Latina CIOs and how that journey impacted her, and then we dive into artificial intelligence and seeing it truly as a collaborative partner in our professional lives.
Carol Cox:
Denise talks about some of the custom gpts she’s been creating. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, you’re gonna learn more. In this episode, we also talk about Denise’s recent leap into entrepreneurship and the work that she’s doing with women in tech. And then we wrap up with speaking tips that Denise has for you. If you’re new to the podcast, welcome at Speaking Your Brand. We work with women entrepreneurs, professionals and leaders to clarify their brand message and story, create their signature talks, and develop their thought leadership platforms. If you would like to find out what your speaker archetype is so you can leverage your natural communication strengths and add to them to make you an even more dynamic speaker, you can take our free quiz as speaking your brand.com/quiz. It’s ten multiple choice questions. It only takes a few minutes to complete, and then you get your results right away with recommendations of what you can do. You can again take that free quiz as speaking your brand.com/quiz. Now let’s get on with the show. Welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast, Denise.
Denise Musselwhite:
Thanks. Thanks for having me, Carol. I’m so excited to be here.
Carol Cox:
Likewise, as listeners know, I’ve been doing episodes related to artificial intelligence to AI for the past year, plus maybe 15 or 16 months. And, you know, probably like every couple of months. I have a topic related to AI because I’m excited about it. It’s potential how we can use it as a collaborative partner and all all the benefits that we can use as entrepreneurs and as professionals and as speakers. And I know, Denise, when I did one back in January, you emailed me and said, oh, like, I love to talk about AI. I’m excited about it. And I said, yes, okay, let’s do a podcast episode. So here you are. And I got to know you. Well. When you attended our recent three day in-person client retreat that we held in Orlando, you also lived in the Orlando area. So that was so much fun. So let me ask you this, uh, first is what got you interested in technology, like when you were young, did you like, did you like gadgets? You know, did you like early computers? Like what? What kind of led you into this field?
Denise Musselwhite:
Oh, Carol, I love this question. For me, it’s a bit of nature and nurture. My parents are immigrants to the United States from Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. They moved here when they were teens, and after my dad got back from the Vietnam War, he learned from his cousins and friends how to be a mechanic. And he opened his first repair shop when I was a baby, and he named it Denise Service Station. Can you imagine? That was located in the in Bronx, New York, um, around 1976 ish. Okay, so I grew up in my dad’s repair shop with a very handy dad in the family. My mom was his office manager and handled all of the paperwork and office management duties related to that. Well, before I went into fifth grade, my parents decided to move our entire family to Orlando, Florida because they were fearful of the middle school that I was going to attend in the Bronx. The neighborhood had changed around us, so they sold everything. I remember them, um, stopping at the bank in their brand new station wagon to pick up all of their life savings in a briefcase. I sat on that briefcase on our ride to Orlando, and the reason they picked Orlando is because family values are made. Where? Mickey Mouse lives like. Seriously. So I was about ten when this happened, and around the age of 11 or 12, he opened a new repair shop called High Tech Tune-up, located right here in Orlando.
Denise Musselwhite:
And every day after school, I went there because they couldn’t afford to have like, child care after school, um, with my siblings. And my dad recruited me to be his right hand to translate the technical manual that came with the computer diagnostic device, to interpret the codes that he needed to repair these newfangled cars in the mid 80s. And then I would translate that to his mechanics. And that’s where my passion and love for technology was born. Even though I was a really curious kid, I was like the kid who would stick things into the electrical socket to see them happen. Right. Um, but he embraced it and the rest is history. I helped my dad’s mechanics translate that computer diagnostic device. Then I did that at law firms while I was in high school, backing up all of their computers when I was just 16. And then I went to UCF and graduated with a degree in technology management and pursued a very, very successful career in technology management, which resulted in me being the chief information officer for um independent schools, and one of the few Latino women to hold that role. There’s less than 2% of women who are Latina who make it to the C-suite in technology.
Carol Cox:
That’s amazing, Denise, and congratulations. And I love hearing that story of you and I. And it does sound like it’s a blend of nature and nurture, like the right environment. But clearly you had a natural inclination to want to stick things into electric sockets and figure out how they worked. Oh, so let’s talk a little bit about your experience as a CIO, as in the C-suite. And then I know you more recently you decided to become an entrepreneur. So we’ll talk about that. But what was the like for you to be a woman? And as you said at a Latina woman in the in, you know, high up in the technology field, and I assume that you did speaking engagements along the way, you know, conferences and events that you would speak at. And what was that like?
Denise Musselwhite:
You know, um, it was really invigorating for me, like I said, because my dad normalized being in a male dominated space when I was young, despite the cultural norms surrounding women. Um, in the Latino culture, I didn’t feel like I didn’t belong there until I felt like I didn’t belong there. So the higher up I got in technology leadership, the less I felt I belonged because it became increasingly male dominated. Um, I felt like I had to turn myself inside out in order to really show up. Like what I thought I was supposed to do. I needed to show up like men do professionally, so I tried. I did do that, and I also probably overprepared for meetings, just like I know many of my clients and other women in leadership do in order to overcome, overcompensate for this feeling of, um, lacking of confidence. Or I need to really show up more than everybody else in order to get noticed. So it was wonderful and also challenging at the same time. And that’s part of the reason why I made a decision to make a pivot. When I reflected on how I was spending my time as a leader, I was seeing myself presenting technology complex, technology complex, uh, um, concepts and strategies to help accelerate technology in the industry. Where I spent most of my time, when I thought about who I was presenting to, I was looking at rooms full of men, right. That not that there’s anything wrong with that. But when I really reflected on how I wanted to make an impact, I decided to change my topics so that I could attract more women. And those topics were more in alignment with what I found to be my deep purpose and what I wanted to make an impact on. And that’s helping to create spaces where women feel more included in a male dominated industry like technology. And everything changed after that. I was now presenting in spaces where more women were present because they were coming for the content around how to succeed in a male dominated industry.
Carol Cox:
Yes. And we’re going to talk, I know in just a few moments about AI and the impact AI is going to have, not only in the workplace, but really society wide. And I am such a huge advocate of making sure that women’s voices and women’s experiences and women’s expertise and our insights are part of the conversations that are being had, because after all, we are 50% of the population and we’re going to be impacted just as much as everyone else. So as you mentioned, you recently made the transition to become an entrepreneur. You founded Tech and Thrive. So what what has that been transition been like? And can you tell us a little bit about Tech and Thrive, who it’s for and how you help the women in there?
Denise Musselwhite:
So it’s been an adventure for sure. So I pivoted away from my 25 plus year role as a chief information officer to, um, figure out what I wanted to do when I grew up, like so many people do, and decided that my heart was in starting something that would step into the gap for executive coaching and leadership development for technology professionals, women, and other underrepresented represented professionals who would appreciate having a trusted advisor like me alongside them in their journey. So Tech and Thrive provides leadership development to technology professionals and technology teams. I just got back from a wonderful full day retreat in Georgia, um, leading conversations with 100 technology professionals on a technology team, and that’s the kind of work that I’m doing now. And I also have lots of one on one clients that I serve to help them lean more into their leadership, um, and to sharpen their skills, their.
Carol Cox:
Well, let’s dig into I. Denise, I always love talking to a fellow tech enthusiast. You know, I even though my master’s degree is in history and like my career trajectory was to be a professor, I made a very like 180 degree turn into software development. This was back in the early 2000, founded two technology companies. So I definitely have maybe this natural inclination towards technology as well. So when ChatGPT launched at the end of 2022, I had my hands all over that right from the beginning. I’ve been excited about the possibilities and the potential, as well as recognizing some of the potential downsides. But Denise, what excites you about AI? What are you seeing as the possibilities?
Denise Musselwhite:
Oh my gosh. Um, so like you, I’m an early adopter. I was all in as soon as, uh, generative AI became available to the masses. And I’ve been fully involved with exploring how it can support me as a CEO and also how it can support my clients in the work that they do. Um, for me, I spend a lot of time playing in the tools that are available and, um, even built my own GPT to support myself and to support my clients. One of them is called the Kindness Beacon, which is a GPT that provides affirmations and support when individuals are feeling overwhelmed because so much of a C-suite member’s life is in overwhelm, because so many things are coming at us, so much so I built the Kindness Beacon just for fun. And it’s really a cool tool, um, which we can link in your show notes. And I’ve also built myself a GPT that I use that is my business advisor. Since I’m a small business and I need to have someone to bounce ideas off of, um, it’s me and myself and I, as a CEO to the startup, um, I built a GPT to provide me with business advice, and it does a pretty good job to do that. I had to be really good at engineering prompts, so I’ve taken some free courses on that to get really good at engineering prompts and using it to accelerate productivity for myself. When I think about my clients, because they’re technology professionals, they feel a unique double bind here where they have to provide, um, the boundaries around AI to their organizations, and they also have to empower their teams and themselves to use it.
Denise Musselwhite:
Right? So that’s a difficult place because not only are they creating the guardrails for how to protect their organizations, um, assets, intellectual property, etc., they also have to dive straight in to figure out how to use it at the same time. So they’re. I’d like to say building the plane while they fly it. They have not even figured out I and they have to create policies and procedures around it. So I’m proud to say that I’m the board chair of an organization that is doing an amazing job at this, the Association of Technology Leaders in Independent Schools. They have just published a resource, in collaboration with three other associations that serve that industry, that informs boards on how to navigate AI. And that’s where some of the work is happening right now, is trying to define how organizations and individuals should use AI in responsible and ethical ways within their organizations. So that’s where most of the conversations are for me. I asked AI to tell me what I should be thinking about before we get on here, and it told me that I should be thinking about how I use it to analyze data. Lots of information quickly. It asked me. It told me that I how I might use it as a productivity tool, and it also challenged me to come up with ways to use it to support my coaching clients. So that’s what I thinks I should be doing.
Carol Cox:
Okay, well, you know, funnily enough, when I sent you an email, you know, leading up to our our recording here, I said, you know, I know we want to talk about AI. Is there anything in particular? So you mentioned a few things, including this AI double bind and some other things. So I basically took your kind of like two sentences about what to talk about. And I asked ChatGPT I said, okay, here’s what, here’s what we want to talk about. And for my podcast, what are some like questions or what are some conversation points. And it gave me a whole long list. And then I kind of sent that to you. And then we figured, you know, we pulled a few of them there. So this is where, you know, we’re using AI not as a replacement, like we’re still here, obviously, having this conversation. We’re still choosing what questions make sense for this podcast and for the listeners. What questions make sense for our areas of expertise and the insights that we can share? But we’re using AI. We’re using ChatGPT as that collaborative partner to kind of give us a starting point instead of having just a blank document in front of us.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah. So yes, it is a strategic partner to the work that we do. Figuring out how to harness it without hurting our organizations is a real challenge, because it’s the Wild West right now, right? It’s just arrived. Ai has been in existence for decades, right? But generative AI has disrupted us, just like the internet disrupted us in the early 90s. Just like the iPhone disrupted us, just like the pandemic disrupted us. Um, this is another disruption. I think AI shines a light on how important it is for us to hone in to those emotional intelligence and interpersonal skills that are so important that cannot be replicated with technology. So my number one takeaway as I kind of watch it is how are we empowering our teams to make themselves irreplaceable by. Increasing their emotional intelligence, their human centric leadership, and leveraging AI to increase productivity. But. Not replace human connection.
Carol Cox:
Yes, and that is so well said, Denise. I absolutely love that, because, you know, the thing that humans are great at is being human. And that’s the thing that I can’t do. It can mimic it like, you know, it can it can write great. It actually can be very empathetic when when you as a, as a therapist or as a coach. But we know it’s mimicking humans because it’s been trained on human writing and human data and all everything that we’ve given it. And so I agree, like, you know, sharing like storytelling, you know, as humans we have embodied experiences. So how, you know, sharing those stories with each other and and helping each other out in that way and then doing that, you know, strategic, high level thinking that’s going to move our organizations forward or that’s going to move society forward. And using AI, you know, to help us solve big problems. That’s some of the things that I’m excited about. So, Denise, you mentioned about, you know, making sure that organizations and their team members, you know, kind of, you know, have are, you know, getting the guidance that they need. So, you know, and I know that you’re doing work with organizations. So how do you see professional training and education evolving to prepare us for a world where increasingly, AI is going to be doing a lot of the tasks and responsibilities that we’ve done and some of the tasks that we may have enjoyed doing, and some tasks where maybe we’re glad, right, to have the AI do it for us instead.
Denise Musselwhite:
You know, I think that it’s a great tool for accelerating progress. And I could see how, um, rather than people being fearful of it replacing jobs. But how might we create more with the talent we have, because they have accelerated their possibilities for productivity in ways that weren’t possible before. Right. So how could we create more of whatever that, um, strategic offering that we, we share as an organization? Because I enhances what we do rather than thinking about it as sacrificing and cutting employees, how could we make employees more productive so that we can accelerate change? Right? How can we produce faster? How can we stand up leadership and development courses faster to serve the niche that we need within our organizations? Um, providing more opportunities for people to connect more personally with what they need from professional development. What’s interesting to me is so much of what I talked about when I was a CIO in education tech was about personalized instruction for students and the employees of the organization. Ai provides us with this really unique opportunity to get that right, because it is really great and at taking in all this data about the people in your organization and refining it and producing outlines, courses that speak directly to what that person needs in a way that a human can’t do that quickly. So I just see opportunity. Even though there is a lot of ethical concerns that I still have. Um, with regard to the medium, I don’t think that it scares me away from digging in and encouraging organizations to do the same.
Carol Cox:
Yes, I’m completely with you there, Denise. Like, this is, you know, these are these are very powerful tools, very useful tools. And they’re going to be here in one form or another. So we should get comfortable using them and seeing their benefits, but also making sure the conversations are happening about ethical use, making sure that companies have guidelines. As far as you know, what data can be used, what’s proprietary, how employees should be using it, and so on. And, you know, it reminds me of there’s a Wharton Business School professor named Ethan Mollick who is very into AI, and he’s been he’s been in it for a while, and he writes these great LinkedIn and newsletters about AI. And so recently he had these four questions for organizations to ask themselves. And I think not only for organizations, but, you know, entrepreneurs, even even entrepreneurs, small entrepreneurs like us. So I’m just going to read the four questions for the audience so they can just kind of put this in their mind and start thinking about these things. Is thinking about AI with AI, what useful thing do you do that will no longer be valuable for you to do it? Because the AI can just do it faster, better, easier? So what’s that thing that you that’s just no longer going to be something that you should be doing? Question number two on the flip side, what’s impossible thing can you now do because of AI? So something that seemed impossible before, but now you or your organization or your team can do it.
Carol Cox:
Number three, what can your organization do? Or you know, you as as an entrepreneur to move to a wider market or to democratize your services, right. So we think about like the Thought Leader Academy and the speaking coaching that we do. Like obviously we’re very like we like small groups. We’re like very hands on. But there’s a way to democratize our frameworks that our way of putting together presentations. So how can we use AI to do that? And then the fourth question is kind of the flip of democratizing it. What can you move to that’s upmarket or personalized, right. To have that deep personalization, that adaptive technology to really help users and learners where they’re getting stuck or or their learning style that’s best for them, like you were talking about with learning and development organizations. Imagine that as a team member, I want to learn something new, but my learning style is different than someone else’s, and maybe I’m starting from a different place. Like I have more knowledge than someone else on that particular topic, and I don’t necessarily need to start way back at the beginning, but I can start further along. But the AI is going to already be able to pick up on that.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah, I love those questions. Those are great questions for your listeners to ponder. Um, I often in the technology team development work that I do start with questions, discussion prompts about how I can shape the future of their team collaborations. How could they utilize it in practical ways to create time when time is at a premium? Um, some of the ways that I’ve heard have been really useful and practical are there’s this stereotype that technology professionals prefer, um, to interact with computers, um, versus human beings. This, um, is not entirely true. There are talented and fantastic professionals who really appreciate interpersonal communication, but if you are one of those people, you can use AI to help you draft, um, emails. If you struggle with that kind of of medium, coming up with what an email should say when you have to launch a new feature or product, right. Um, there’s also ways to utilize AI to diagnose, um, system optimization in ways that humans can’t process that amount of data. Um, protecting us from a cybersecurity perspective, AI can accelerate the way that we do that, um, so that we can protect our systems faster and better. So there are so many outcomes of having these discussions with tech teams. Um, and I wonder how other organizations are leaning into these conversations using those prompts that you shared to really get in the weeds with how it can, um, accelerate and enhance the work that we do. The other thing that I always share with people is like. Don’t let your fear keep you from learning something new. There’s so much out there that is free. It is. There’s no excuse to not taking a course or spending 45 minutes learning how AI works. Because it really your future depends on it.
Carol Cox:
Yes, yes. As you know, the Saints have been going out around for a while now that says, you know, I won’t replace humans, but humans with AI will replace humans without AI.
Denise Musselwhite:
This is I, you know, as sad as it sounds, it’s true. And it’s it’s no different than when the internet came and disrupted everything. It’s just the new version, right? It’s the new version. The 2024 version of Google.
Carol Cox:
Yes. Or having a website as a business.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there are so many resources out there that I am going to share with you, to share with with your your listeners and your viewers in the show notes. I have a couple of terrific resources that I share that make AI more accessible. One of them is free courses that are available to anyone who wants to learn more, and then a directory of all of the AI tools that exist, so that you can figure out which tool is best for what you want to do.
Carol Cox:
Oh, fantastic. All right. Thank you so much, Denise. Well, let me ask you this, since obviously, you know, you’re a big advocate of of more women in technology, especially in the leadership level. I have been a strong advocate for that for years as well. What do you see is is a way to encourage more women to pursue careers in technology, you know, including in AI and what have you. What has the role of mentorship played for you in your career, and how do you see that being an impact?
Denise Musselwhite:
Well, I mean, I wouldn’t be sitting here with you, um, as a CEO of Tech and Thrive without mentorship, sponsorship, and supporters along the way, I could not have done it alone. So. For when I talk to women who want to either break into technology or who want to, um, grow in their own technology practice as leaders, um, because they all have their eyes set on a higher role or more money, whatever it is for them, there is no replacement for ambition and intrinsic motivation. Right. So those are the two things that are absolutely essential to you making your way in any profession. And there’s no shortcut to that. So my first piece of advice is to find a mentor or sponsor. Within your realm of influence, whatever that may be, and ask them to support you. Right. And that nobody’s going to come knocking on your door to say, hey, I want to support you. I see something in you. Um, this is something that you have to do for yourself. So step out of your comfort zone and find those people in your network who can be a sponsor and supporter. I am one of those people who is ready at the ready to be a connector for technology professionals. So if you don’t have this person in your world, I invite you to reach out to me on LinkedIn. I will connect you. I will plug you in. If you have the ambition and the intrinsic motivation to lean in to your potential, I am all for it. I’m here for you.
Carol Cox:
Oh, that is such a kind offer, Denise. Thank you so much. And yes, our listeners, make sure to connect with Denise on LinkedIn. Links in the show notes whether you need her to connect you to a mentor or you just want to follow her because she puts out great content on LinkedIn as well. And, Denise, I know you’re also involved in a Women in Technology organization. Can you tell us about that?
Denise Musselwhite:
Yes. So I am the board secretary for a new venture called the Women in Tech and Entrepreneurship, which launched in Florida in May of 2023. So it’s not even a year old. Our chapter in Florida isn’t even a year old yet, or our chapter in Orlando isn’t even a year old yet. And the organization is poised for great success because our, um, CEO is dedicated to providing free access to connection, support and professional learning to any woman in technology or entrepreneurs adjacent to technology who are wanting to build community without, um, drama. And right. That’s an important. Yeah. So an inclusive, warm, inviting where you can show up authentically to connect with other individuals who are passionate about technology and entrepreneurship in a non-competitive space that is fully free. This has been a remarkable innovation for me, having been in a male dominated industry for the bulk of my career, to have a place to connect with other like minded professionals, not just women, but also their allies, to move the needle so that this place feels more inclusive. Mhm.
Carol Cox:
Oh that’s wonderful. Well I’ll make sure to include a link to that as well in the show notes. So listeners can can find that. And Denise, since this is a public speaking podcast, I can’t let you go without having you share some insights and lessons you have for the listeners who are also speakers. Like as I mentioned at the beginning, you did recently attend our three day in-person client retreat, and it was so fun to see you develop as a speaker during the three days that we were there. So what kind of speaking tips do you do you have to share with our listeners.
Denise Musselwhite:
Are speaking tips. You know, I, I think that because the most, most of the world really is scared of speaking, you know, this is a fear that many people have. Um, you’re not alone in this feeling that it’s scary to stand in front of people and speak. I encourage you to put yourself out there in safe places with people who you trust, like I did at the Speaking Your Brand retreat, because those places where you have supporters and encouragers are the place for you to practice. And there’s no fear of failure when you’re doing it because you simply want to grow. So choose a place where you can test, put yourself out there for presentation at a small conference, or at an organization that you care about deeply. And. Do it. Just do it. And if you are still scared, then seek Carol out for support. Her podcast is a great, great resource. And you know, being scared is part of the process of growth. So what I’d like to tell people who ask me about this, because I speak a lot, is what do you do about being nervous before you go up? I learned how to turn those nerves and that adrenaline into excitement. So I retrained the feeling and I retrained my brain. When I have those butterflies, which every single person that I know does, they are because I’m excited to share and to meet everyone that’s there. And when I reframe it, it’s easier. It’s still a challenge because you have to prepare, but. That feeling. Those butterflies are me being excited to share what I think, and I know is really important for the audience to hear, because it’s going to move the needle for them.
Carol Cox:
Yes, I love the reframe, and I completely agree with you that, you know, we get nervous. It’s a physiological reaction our bodies have for good reason, because our bodies and our brain wants to protect ourselves. But reframing it into like number one, this is normal to the feel, the the butterflies and the nerves. So number two, I always say like work with it, work with the energy, move your body around instead of trying to fight against it. And then I always say, once you get started, like once you’re into the first few minutes, generally those nerves are going to dissipate and then you’re just going to be in your flow.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah, I yes, yes, yes to all of that.
Carol Cox:
Denise. Let the listeners know the best place for them to connect with you.
Denise Musselwhite:
The best place to connect with me is on LinkedIn so you can find me there. And then I also, of course, have a website. The shortcut for that website is Tech Thrive dot me. Tech thrive dot me because I don’t want to force your listeners to try to remember my complicated name, Denise musselwhite.com. So I created a shortcut for it. So tech Thrive me is my website, and everybody can find me at Denise Musselwhite on LinkedIn. I am looking forward to hearing from your audience, and I hope that you’ll DM me something that I don’t know that everybody recognizes about being a CEO. Is that a lot of this work of entrepreneurship at the start, you do it alone. So shoot me a DM, tell me how you’re doing. Um, it’s a lonely place to be alone in a business growing. And I love hearing from people who listen to the podcast with insights and, um, additions or, you know, any kind of insights that they might have.
Carol Cox:
Oh, fantastic. All right. So make sure to reach out to Denise, send her a message. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Denise Musselwhite:
Thank you for having me, Carol. I’m a huge fan, you know that. And I my answer is always yes whenever you ask.
Carol Cox:
Okay, well well okay. So keep that in mind for next time. Thank you. Thanks again to Denise for coming on the podcast. Don’t forget to take our free speaker archetype quiz so you can find out which one you are, and leverage your natural communication strengths and add to them. You can get that free quiz as speaking your Brand.com slash quiz. Until next time, thanks for listening.
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