328-SYB-Kelly-Shermerhorn.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Carol Cox:
Have you ever wondered if you’re worthy enough to have a voice? You definitely are. And you’re going to appreciate my conversation with Kelly Schermerhorn on this episode of The Speaking Your Brand podcast. More and more women are making an impact by starting businesses, running for office and speaking up for what matters. With my background as a political analyst, entrepreneur and speaker, I interview and coach purpose driven women to shape their brands, grow their companies and become recognized as influencers in their field. This is speaking your brand, your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience. Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast. I’m your host, Carol Cox. Have you ever felt imposter syndrome that you weren’t sure if you had enough expertise or experience or knowledge or credentials or fill in the blank to speak up. Share your perspective and use your voice. If so, you’re not alone. I have been there, and I know that so many of the women that we work with and women we’ve had on this podcast have been there too. And there are ways to move past this. That’s why I’m excited to have on this episode today my guest, Kelly Schermerhorn, who describes herself as a recovering people pleaser and accolade collector.
Carol Cox:
I know I can definitely relate to that. Kelly recently graduated from our Thought Leader Academy, and so I got to know her during the eight weeks that we were together, and I really wanted to have her here on the podcast because we talk about her story of feeling worthy enough to have a voice, the journey she went through to get there, her message to her audiences around mental health, why she wanted to create a signature talk and speak to audiences about her own journey, why she decided to enroll in the Thought Leader Academy, including the doubts that came up for her while she was working with us, creating her talk and the conversation that Kelly and I had around that and the process that she went through to create and refine her talk and her framework. This episode is part of the new series we’re doing all around using your voice. So make sure to keep your eyes and ears out for the episodes that we have coming up. If you’re interested in joining us on the Thought Leader Academy, you can get all the details by going to speaking your brand.com/academy. Again, that’s speaking your brand.com/academy. Now let’s get on with the show. Welcome to the podcast, Kelly.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
I am so happy to be here. I am.
Carol Cox:
Too. We have some really important things to talk about today in this conversation, and I’m so glad that we are having because I think it’s going to help so many of the people who are listening. So let’s kick it off, Kelly, with Tell everyone why you decided that you wanted to create a signature talk and you wanted to talk to audiences around mental health.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
I wanted to talk about mental health because for years I struggled and I didn’t know why. I didn’t know it was related to mental health. What I knew is that I had a negative voice inside my head. You know, a lot of people would say that can be relatable to imposter syndrome, and that’s certainly part of it. But what I realized is that there was a root cause of a lack of self-love and self-worth. And so I really wanted to talk to more people about how to find their worth, especially as it’s related to mental health.
Carol Cox:
And can you tell us a little bit about where did this show up for you? Like, where were you in the before and then what were some some trigger points or what were some things that kind of led you into the awareness that there was there were things going on in your mental health that you hadn’t realized that that was what was going on? A lot of.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
It is related to the workplace and where I find my identity. So we’ll say pre, you know, this this pathway to really leaning into self-love and finding my worth. I was finding all my worth in my job. And this was really a slippery slope because I grew up knowing that I wanted to work in marketing, which is the industry I’m in now. I went to bring your daughter to work day with my mom, and at a very young age, I just I always knew what I wanted to be. And so that was really great. I think to have those aspirations to be able to align with that. But what happened is it turned into a very slippery slope where suddenly I was combating all those negative voices in my head by seeking those external factors through my work. Right? I was, you know, I was looking for titles, constant promotions. I was, you know, the yes person. And all of that led to burnout, you know, And that’s where I learned about my mental health. And really what happened is I had taken seven weeks out of work. And once you separated me from work, I suddenly had to find my identity outside of work and really in myself.
Carol Cox:
Did that feel scary?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Oh, 100%. It was very scary. And as someone who found all my identity and worth in work and doing, you know, specifically doing, I thought, how am I even worthy with just being right? I had for seven weeks out of work I had to just be, which if you’ve never slowed down your pace, it can be very challenging for people to rest in that and just think, who am I right, you know, to find that just. Within yourself can be very scary for many people, including myself.
Carol Cox:
So did this realization that your identity and your self-worth was so tied to the work that you did and your sense of having a career and having profession? Did you realize that during those seven weeks of I don’t know if you want to call it like a sabbatical or a break during that time, or did you did you have that realization? And then you you knew that you needed to take that time off.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
So this was actually during 2020 when I think many people, you know, came to realizations about themselves. So for me, unfortunately, it was not a recognition. And then I took the time. It was kind of a forced time to slow myself. And I do refer to it as a sabbatical now because really it was a gift. But now I can separate myself and find my worth in who I am instead of what I’m achieving at work. And the good news is that I actually bring more of my full self to the world and to work because I realize is who I am and the value I bring. Not, you know, not using those externals to validate that.
Carol Cox:
And during the seven week sabbatical and then even after that, what are some things that you did that helped you to to disentangle your identity from the work that you did?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
I just stopped and slowed down because I find that a lot of times we can’t really reflect if we’re running non stop. And so the number one thing I did was just slow down. The other thing I did was just a lot of deep reflection, you know, asking myself, how did I get to the place of finding my worth externally? And that’s where I realized that, you know, from from things that had happened in childhood and growing up, you you find roots in that that might lead to self doubt not loving yourself again where that negative voice comes from. And so instead I leaned into the things that I needed to be true about myself. You know, what did I love? How was I created? What did I find fun in right? I think fun can bring us back to our natural roots. And again, I have this phrase that I learned, you know, am I doing or am I being right? Because we’re we’re created as human beings. And so that’s a that’s what I use to pulse, check myself whether or not I’m again, running life too fast and looking for that worth externally.
Carol Cox:
Yeah, a few things come to mind. Kelly As I’ve been listening to you, the first is that in our culture, especially in American society and culture, busyness, the hustle is so rewarded, not just rewarded financially, you know, promotions and sales if you’re an entrepreneur and things like that, but really rewarded from the sense of we almost see people who are who are super busy and doing really well on their work and their careers and their businesses as almost being worthier in our minds than people who seem to take a slower path in life.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Why I feel passionate about this topic is that people can go years right? As you just mentioned, this is definitely, you know, the culture. So they can go years, you know, not really understanding their worth only in themselves. And so, you know, part of the reason I actually sought to to talk about this is I always wanted to just help one more person. Right? What if I could help somebody recognize seven minutes from now and find more value in themselves? Or what if they didn’t have to take, you know, a seven week sabbatical or seven months to delay coming, you know, becoming fully who they are? That’s that’s, you know, part of my mission.
Carol Cox:
Yeah. Well, seven weeks or seven months sabbatical sounds pretty good to me, right? Yes.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Yes. It could be beneficial as long as you’re in the right space, right?
Carol Cox:
Yes. Well, and also, like, I know that I have workaholic tendencies. You know, I have addiction in my family. And luckily, I don’t have substance addiction. But I do know that workaholism I mean, I’m talking about from high school all the way until pretty much, you know, relatively recently, that work for me has been a coping mechanism, right, to distract me from maybe other things that were going on that didn’t feel good. And so the work was a way that I didn’t have to process the feelings or feel the feelings. I could just focus on my work instead. And so I feel like that, you know, for for those of you listening, it may not even be a case of like traditional burnout where you’re just, you know, super like fatigued and fed up and you just can’t do it anymore. But it also could just be like, you pour so much of yourself into your work, into your business, into your career, that you don’t have hobbies, you don’t have good relationships with other people. And then so the question I ask myself is why? Why am I spending so much time every weekend working instead of doing other things?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Yes. Well, and, Carol, I think you brought up a key word for me, which is that you were distracting yourself from some of those heavy emotions that none of us want to face. And that’s when we talked about, you know, how was it to take seven weeks of sabbatical? And while we all think about how fun it. Can be when you just have to sit and address those emotions. It can be hard, but that’s the other side. And the importance of I believe talking about this is raising up mental health, right? So often we say, you know, we get the question, how are you today? Fine, great. Instead of just having an authentic conversation about how you’re actually doing and normalizing that. Right. Just like your physical health isn’t always going to be, you know, awesome. Your mental health isn’t either. And we have to accept those emotions and really dive into yes, why are we using distractions instead of revisiting those things that maybe we need to work through?
Carol Cox:
Yes. And let that quiet time, the reflection time, whether it’s through, you know, just meditation or journaling or whatever happens to be I know during the first year of the pandemic, basically 2020 and 2020, I walked almost every single day. And I, you know, I really got to know myself so much better because I didn’t walk listening to music or listening to podcasts or anything just by myself. And I’m so glad, like you, that almost, you know, that time allowed so many of us to have that that quiet and that reflection.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Yes. So two things on that. One, I love hearing that you went for walks because I also find movement a great way to one just spent get that that solitude. As long as you’re not distracting, which is fine, right? Like I often use walking as an opportunity to to learn more, to get inspired, just like listening to this podcast, but then finding those moments where you do just create that solitude. But movement in my journey has also created an opportunity for processing, right? As we talked about before and thinking about the topic of mental health, sometimes it’s hard to, you know, revisit those emotions or what we might be trying to run from. But actually walking or moving your body is a way that allows us to process some of that outside of our body. But the other point number two is, again, it’s great that you make that time, Carol, but I think so many of us, we forget what it was like, you know, back in the pandemic when that time was carved out for us. So I think being really intentional about making sure that you have time to rest and reflect in solitude and as you mentioned, you know, journaling, meditation, taking long showers, a lot of us, you know, find that in the shower. You know, that’s a time where maybe we come up with ideas, but it can also be a time of self-reflection.
Carol Cox:
Yes, absolutely. Yes. Lots like Long Bath. I love I love to do that. Okay. So, Kelly, why did you decide then that you wanted to create a signature talk to talk about this and speak to audiences because you could do this on social media, you know, share your message. And I’m sure that you have and you could do it just talking one on one with people. Why did you decide you wanted to be a speaker and put this out there?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Well, as I mentioned, one of the reasons is I learned a lot through my personal journey and if I can help one more person, that would make a difference. And sure, one more person could be, you know, a journey like this where we’re just having a one on one conversation. But the more that I did talk on social media, the more people that reached out to me and said, you’re making such a big difference. This is so important to me. And so I realized that while my goal is is to impact one more person, you know, I could impact many more people. And there’s a difference between talking on social media and actually hearing someone’s voice talk about matters like doubt and imposter syndrome, where you find your worth. And so when you hear somebody talk about that out loud, I think it gives other people the courage to visit that within themselves.
Carol Cox:
And Kelly, before you enrolled in our Thought Leader Academy at the beginning of this year, what speaking experience did you have?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Not a lot. I didn’t really have any speaking experience. I actually saw out the Academy because maybe a couple years before, you know, I’ve been following this for a while, but I heard other women speaking and sharing their stories and I was so inspired. And at that time, I, I wasn’t doing the self work that I was. But yet that moment and that inspiration hung with me. And so I was inspired even if I didn’t have the experience, you know, the quote unquote speaking experience.
Carol Cox:
No, that’s great. And that’s why I asked you that question, because I want listeners to know that we work with women, whether they’ve been speaking for years or they’re relatively new to putting themselves out there. And I think. Kelly, you had attended our brave, bold Beyond Live Virtual Summit, one of the online events we did one in the fall of 2020 and then one in the spring of 2021 during the pandemic. And we brought incredible women speakers together to share their stories. And so that was incredibly inspiring. I’m so glad that you were able to be there. Yes.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Each woman that spoke at those events. They each had their own story. And I think, again, reflecting on that, it ties back to the Worth message because sometimes, you know, especially me, you know, as I would compare myself to other people or, you know, be buried in that imposter syndrome, I would think, oh, well, maybe my message isn’t worth sharing to other people, you know, which then seeds back to am I worthy? But hearing other women share their stories and hear how how unique each story was gave me confidence that my story was worth sharing too.
Carol Cox:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m so glad to hear that. That was one of the results of that. So then, Kelly, as you were I know we had connected with each other either in November or December last year, as you were thinking about enrolling in the Thought Leader Academy. Why did you decide that that was the time that you wanted to do it? I had a.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Lot of inspiration and motivation. I think having started sharing more on social media, which so I’ll tell the story. Let me back up a little bit because it all it all fed into this this growing momentum. So I had started at a new company that that actually had this policy where if things didn’t work out within like six weeks, something like that, they they would compensate you and you could leave and, you know, have that compensation to help you find a new job. Well, what that did is open a door for me to actually start bringing my full self to work and to social media, because I think sometimes we’re afraid to share messages online because, again, that that fear and that connection to for a job and of course, you know, we all have bills to pay. So that is important. Once I started doing that right, I kind of had that permission. And while that permission came from a job, I think the goal here is to give ourselves permission to to to go out there and share our voice. But once I started sharing my voice, as I mentioned, I started getting people saying, wow, you know, these stories are impacting me. They started sharing stories back with me and, you know, there’s the gift of giving, right? It was it was just as rewarding for me to hear their stories and we could kind of grow together. And so I had that momentum building up As I as I came into the fall, I was hearing more from you. And I thought, let me just try this out and have a conversation with Carol. And when I did, you were so warm and welcoming, and that gave me the confidence to move forward.
Carol Cox:
Oh, well, I’m so glad to hear that. Now, let’s talk about your experience in the Thought Leader Academy, because it ended up being great. But there was a moment when you did have some self-doubt and and I’m glad that you’re willing to talk about this on the podcast here because I think it’s important because all of us have self-doubt. All of us sometimes wonder, like, is my story worthy enough to share? Will people find it helpful? Is my message helpful? Do I say anything different from anyone else that is out there? We all experience that and just know for for everyone listening that, yes, your message and your story are important. And there are people out there who need to hear specifically from you. So, Kelly, let’s talk about your experience in the Thought Leader Academy during the eight weeks that we were together. Tell us a little bit about that process for you.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Honestly, the process was up and down, right. As we mentioned. And this is this is really personal to me, but I imagine that other people might go through the same thing. So as we talked about, I had momentum going into the course. I was feeling, you know, great that I had a message to share. And then, you know, the things that I’m still recovering from this is this is a daily walk. Then that seed that that seed was planted again in the imposter syndrome. And I thought, okay, well, maybe I can’t do this. And then we would go into a session we would share with the group. And again, I would hear encouragement for the other women. So I’d get confident again. So it was it was a little bit of a roller coaster. And I’ll say, you know, part of what I liked about, you know, the eight weeks is that we got to go through that framework. But what happens is sometimes you’re still working through your message. And so I’ll be honest, that first iteration of the messaging that came out for me, I was like, Oh, I don’t like that. And I think that’s when I send you a message. And I said, You know what? I’m just I’m going to I’m going to keep going, but I’m going to hit pause. Or maybe I said, you know, quit or maybe quit was my internal word. But that’s that’s not what happened, is it?
Carol Cox:
Well, no. Okay. Also, I will say so here’s what you said in your message, Kelly, and you were lovely. It was a lovely email like it was, you know, and it was basically like, yeah, I’m going to I’m going to continue the Thought Leader Academy. I think you had maybe 2 or 3 weeks left of the eight weeks and you said, but I’m I don’t want to be a speaker anymore. Yeah. And I was like, I got that. And literally my heart stopped because of course, that’s not at all what we want for any anyone that we work with or for any woman out there. And I was like, oh, wait, wait, wait, Hold on a minute. I need to find out more about what is going on here and how we can help. So I want to Kelly, I’ll let you. Take the story from there. Yes.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Well, this this is one of my favorite parts of the story because I remember getting that email back from you, Carol, and you said something like you’re not off the hook yet with a winky face. And, you know, that just made me smile and and feel supported. I think that’s the value of the group, right? So often we want to give up on ourselves, or at least that’s been part of my journey and that’s the benefit of being in a group. And having leaders like you is that you help encourage us to move forward. And that’s exactly what happened next, right? You were willing to jump on the phone with me and just hear what I was struggling with because, you know, while we might know what we want to say, and this is my journey, the first thing that came out didn’t feel right to me. And I think that’s part of the iterative, creative process, Right? The first thing that that we come out, even though we have a really great process and framework that you give us, it still takes iteration. And so having a conversation with you, being able to share a little bit more of my journey together, especially with prompts from you, we kind of pulled out a better story, in my opinion, and a better place to start, which was really on the message of Worth.
Carol Cox:
Yes, and I completely agree with you that it is a creative process and there are iterations involved. And I remember that for you, Kelly, The you know, the first initial draft of the talk was that it felt very heavy to you. You know, and obviously we don’t like you know, we have important things that we want to share with our audiences. Not everything is unicorns and rainbows, but I completely understand where sometimes you look at a talk and you’re like, wow, like what? I want to sit in the audience and listen to this. How would I feel at the end of this? And so I and I know that for, you know, some of our stories and our messages, they tend to be a little bit on the heavier side. But there are ways to to construct it and to make it so that you’re not downplaying, you know, some of the things that the real things that happen in our lives, but also providing the audience with that journey and that journey of hope and possibility.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Yes, exactly. And, you know, part of the message, especially when you talk about mental health, can be heavy. But in general, I don’t consider myself a heavy person. Right? I like to be light and airy. And so it just wasn’t feeling right. And so what I was able to identify again, actually going back to that childhood story, was a better angle that I think created a more crystal clear message that I was trying to relate to, which is again, on Worth. And it related back to my career, which I think, you know, is relatable to a lot of audiences.
Carol Cox:
And I also find sometimes if I create something that ends up not being what I want, it has provided me the opposite. Then I can see that I can more clearly see what it is that I do want because I see now. Okay, this is not this is not it. Now I know I need to take these parts out or I need to to refine this part.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Yes. And it can be a springboard, right, For for me, it was a springboard to getting to that next message. So, again, maybe I wouldn’t have gotten here without that first iteration.
Carol Cox:
And then you also, I know, worked on a framework during the time together to go with the talk. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Yes. So my framework actually nicely pairs with my message on worth. And so it’s surrounded with the acronym WORTH, you know, W or H. And what I wanted to do is actually talk about the warning signals that I experienced and that might help other people to where where I was maybe falsely finding my worth instead of finding it in myself. So again, some of those things were I was susceptible to a willingness to say yes all the time and saying yes and being collaborative is great. But when you’re saying yes, at the risk of your own self care or your own mental health, and because you’re just trying to please others and get your worth through that, it can become a very dangerous warning sign. You know, another example is when we think about the oh, for me I was very obsessed with outcomes and metrics and being a person who works in the business world or a person who owns their own business, you have to be concerned with keeping the lights on, right? And that means measuring data. And I get really excited about data. But there’s again, a very slippery slope as to whether or not your value is only whether or not you’re driving numbers, right? Instead of just thinking about the relationships that you’re building, the input that you’re creating, whether or not you’re being innovative. Right? It’s not always all about the outcomes. And so again, some of those things like the creativity and the relationships, those are really great skills that just have to do with who you are, right? That worth that you bring to the table. Not in where you’re finding it. So those are just a couple of examples, but I think it’s helpful because, one, it helped me remember and hone in on the key messages, right? Because we could all talk all day about our different stories. And so having that framework really helped me succinct the points that I wanted to share. Yes.
Carol Cox:
And now I’ll remember it, were that I’m sure the listeners will too, and it helps you to remember it. And then you can do so much with it. You can share the different letters on social media, social media post or other things that you’re doing as well. So Kelly, you know, this idea of feeling worthy enough to have a voice, how are you feeling today as we’re talking? And then what are some strategies that you feel like will be helpful to you going forward when those self doubts and imposter syndrome do come up again? Because they undoubtedly will. They do again for me and they do for most of us.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Well, I am feeling very encouraged today and more confident because part of it is putting ourselves out of our comfort zone, which can be very hard to do when you’re seated with self doubt. But the more that you put yourself out there, it creates that confidence because you’re just bringing your full self to the table. But the other ways that I try to manage this moving forward is to focus on trust. You know, trust of myself. I think often times that we have that. If a friend who calls it her spidey sense, you know, your gut, your intuition, trust that because that’s part of who uniquely you are. Again, instead of focusing on what you think somebody else wants you to say instead of trusting yourself. So trusting myself is one thing that I’m leaning into. Again, finding that balance in accepting myself just as I am, instead of thinking that I have to perform every day. So we’re not going to show up at 100% every day. Right? Those are the things that can lead to to burnout or poor mental health. And so just accepting yourself as you are being instead of putting an overemphasis on doing and again, making sure that I’m slowing down, I have a tendency might have even come through my speech today. I have a tendency to move quickly to expect things to come to fruition quickly. And so slowing down, one just creates that space and that time to reflect. Because if I’m continuing to bury down the emotions and not reflect, then I could end up exactly where I was before. So those are a couple of the ways that I’m looking to maintain confidence and acknowledgement that I am worthy.
Carol Cox:
Oh, that’s really helpful. I really like that. Kelly Trust. Yes. And then and the slowing down and then what’s next for you? What do you have coming up that you’re working on?
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Well, thanks to the prompt from the framework I’ve actually submitted to speak at three different places, I’m in the process of talking to one of my local women’s groups about bringing this message. And, you know, every time that you do that, it actually creates another opportunity to, one, just get to know somebody else to build that relationship, which I find a lot of value in. It helps get their feedback on the message, maybe what other people are looking to hear. And that’s where certainly we have a message. But I also think it’s important to understand who your audience is and if they have some unique needs. And so, you know, where I’m going is, you know, on adventures to to putting myself out there and learning how, you know, I can bring my messages to new places.
Carol Cox:
Oh, that’s fantastic. Kelly Well, thank you so much for being a valued member of our speaking in your brand community and a graduate of our Thought Leader Academy. And thank you so much for coming on the Speaking Your Brand podcast.
Kelly Schermerhorn:
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Carol.
Carol Cox:
Thanks again to Kelly for coming on the podcast. We are continuing this series that we’re doing called Use Your Voice. Next week I have on as my guest Dr. Nicole Rochester. Nicole was on the podcast way back in episode 98. This was, oh my gosh, I’m trying to see what year was that? That was in December of 2018. So we’re talking four and a half years ago now. Nicole attended the in-person client retreat, speaking intensive that we did in Orlando a few months ago in February. So it was so fun to meet her, Nicole, in person because we’ve just known each other online and I decided to invite her back on the podcast to talk about basically where she at, what has she been doing for the past four and a half years since she was last on the podcast and you are going to be blown away. So that’s next week’s episode. The week after that, we have another thought Leader Academy, a client, Kelly Lopez, talking about her experience in Thought Leader Academy and her and how she’s using her voice. And then to wrap up our series, Oh, my gosh, we have a very, very, very special guest. And I’m not going to tell you who it is. It is someone who was very well known. And we reached out to her, we should say. Diane Diaz, our lead speaking coach, reached out. To her. And this guest said yes. So stay tuned for that. That is coming up in just a few episodes. So make sure to hit, subscribe or follow in your podcast app so you don’t miss any of that. If you would like to join us in the Thought Leader Academy, go to speaking your brand.com/academy to learn more. Until next time, thanks for listening.
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